Gravity???

[newtonian]

igorsboss - Yes, I also think for myself and listen to others.<br /><br />OK -why would you consider gravity might not have a cause?<br /><br />Are you aware of anything that does not have a cause or causes?<br /><br />To me, our lack of knowledge is humbling - and I agree we should be open-minded.<br /><br />However, my religious belief in Jehovah as God is deeply involved with the scientific priniciple of cause and effect since the derivation of the Divine Name comes from the causative form, imperfect state, of a Hebrew verb for "to be" which bascically means: "He causes to be."<br /><br />Therefore my religious and scientific belief includes belief in the scientific principle of cause and effect - and I am not aware of any evidence to the contrary.<br /><br />Are you?<br /><br />BTW - no need to sigh - differences of belief among scientists can be healthy- it helps avoid deception or following a wild goose chase so to speak, if you consider objectively the evidence for said different beliefs to try to determine truth. <br />The attempt to determine the cause of gravity is exciting, to me. If we knew all the answers, scienctific research would be less exciting.<br />

 

[igorsboss]

Although everything which I have ever observed appears to follow from cause and effect, I am willing to accept the existence of a thing (gravity) without knowing its cause.<br /><br />And, not knowing its cause, I am futher willing to accept that perhaps there is a thing somwhere which does not follow from my (narrow) rules of cause and effect, but simply exists.<br /><br />Statements of "should" may be, for all we know, overly restrictive. Perhaps the deep reality is so twisted that we can't percieve it yet.<br /><br />Does this seem irrational to you?

 

[abq_farside]

To no one in particular:<br /><br />Does gravity have a time component? I have never seen an equation with one in it and have wondered about that after a physics teacher raised a similar question (long since forgotten).<br /><br />For instance, the moon affects the earth and visa-versa. If the moon were to suddenly disappear, would we immediately feel the affects or would there be a time delay?<br /><br />I know the likelihood of something like happening is silly, but it helps me frame my question so it might be easier to visualize.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em><font size="1" color="#000080">Don't let who you are keep you from becoming who you want to be!</font></em></p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

It's actualy a good question, I think the current understanding is that gravity 'moves' at the speed of light although its an area that is currently under research.

 

[newtonian]

abq_farside - Hi!<br /><br />Good post. <br /><br />Newton thought gravity was instantaneous, if I remember correctly. <br /><br />We also do not know the speed of dark energy, though it seems capable of causing expansion faster than light.<br /><br />I get spaced out when trying to contemplate how space can expand FTL, but Matter cannot travel FTL.<br /><br />However, nacnud is correct, recent research seems to confirm that gravity travels at the speed of llight.<br /><br />Whether that is constant is also a matter of research.

 

[newtonian]

Igorsboss - No, it is not irrational - simply not proven. There is a big difference.<br /><br />Scientists generally choose between these two scientific models involving cause and effect:<br /><br />1. An infinite number of causes going back for infinite past time.<br /><br />2. A first cause which either caused time to exist, or always experienced time.<br /><br />Belief in either is not irrational. In fact, God would be the First Cause according to Biblical teaching.<br />The ocscillating theory of our universe has one model involving infinite past motion of expansion and collapse cycles. That is not an irrational theory, and it allows gravity to always exist.<br /><br />However, evidence is against that theory. Both the currently observed acceleration of expansion, by dark energy, and the second law of thermodynamics, including entropy, are also against that theory.<br /><br />Teaching the earth is held up by Atlas would be somewhat irrational, for an example.<br />

 

[Maddad]

abq_farside<br />"<font color="yellow">Does gravity have a time component?</font><br />Gravity is the warping of space-time, so indeed it should have such a component to it. Note that we express the force of gravity in square seconds. Me, I've only seen round ones! *L*<br /><br />"<font color="yellow">If the moon were to suddenly disappear, would we immediately feel the affects or would there be a time delay?</font><br />Not immediately; there would be a 1.3 second delay, the time it takes light to travel from the Moon to Earth. The reason is that gravity propagates at the speed of light.