Hole in the Universe

[derekmcd]

<font color="orange">Astronomers find gaping hole in the Universe <br /><br />University of Minnesota astronomers have found an enormous hole in the Universe, nearly a billion light-years across, empty of both normal matter such as stars, galaxies and gas, as well as the mysterious, unseen “dark matter.†While earlier studies have shown holes, or voids, in the large-scale structure of the Universe, this new discovery dwarfs them all.<br /><br />“Not only has no one ever found a void this big, but we never even expected to find one this size,†said Lawrence Rudnick of the University of Minnesota astronomy professor. Rudnick, along with grad student Shea Brown and associate professor Liliya Williams, also of the University of Minnesota, reported their findings in a paper accepted for publication in the Astrophysical Journal. <br /><br />Astronomers have known for years that, on large scales, the Universe has voids largely empty of matter. However, most of these voids are much smaller than the one found by Rudnick and his colleagues. In addition, the number of discovered voids decreases as the size increases. <br /><br />“What we’ve found is not normal, based on either observational studies or on computer simulations of the large-scale evolution of the Universe,†Williams said. <br /><br />The astronomers drew their conclusion by studying data from the NRAO VLA Sky Survey (NVSS), a project that imaged the entire sky visible to the Very Large Array (VLA) radio telescope, part of the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO). Their study of the NVSS data showed a remarkable drop in the number of galaxies in a region of sky in the constellation Eridanus, southwest of Orion. <br /><br />“We already knew there was something different about this spot in the sky,†Rudnick said. The region had been dubbed the “WMAP Cold Spot,†because it stood out in a map of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation made by the Wilkinson Microwave</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Wow.<br /><br />Just.. Wow.<br /><br />That's a darn big hole.<br /><br />I wonder what secrets lie behind its formation? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[emperor_of_localgroup]

I guess back to the drawing board again!!! I wonder what it's going to be this time, dark light, dark gravity, dark momentum? Wrong time to live in the big balloon, we know very little about the balloon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>

 

[Leovinus]

2 stupid theories:<br /><br />1) It's closest to where the big bang occurred. It blew everything away from that place<br />2) It's farthest from where the big bang occurred. The matter just hasn't gotten there yet. <br /><br />Next someone is going to tell me that the big bang occurred everywhere at once, the universe is a torus, or some such. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

At nearly a billion miles across... how could you miss it? <br /><br />I find it amazing that a mere millionths of a degree difference would be considered a void. I think the article might be slightly misleading by using the term 'void'. I'm sure there are galaxies and such in this 'void', just far, far less than what would normally be expected. I can imagine that such a small difference in temperature as measured by human standards being applied at universal scales do indeed make a huge difference in the amount radiation existing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[spacefire]

first of all I think dark matter is made up. hopefully this discovery will prove that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

Dark matter is directly related to galaxies. If this 'hole' is relatively devoid of galaxies, then obviously dark matter will not be very prevalent either. I don't see how this discovery could possibly disprove dark matter. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[enigma10]

I'm just curious to see if we or the surrounding galaxies are moving toward the hole. If we are in the middle of a "crowd" all running in one direction, the place we would be running for would appear as a hole. It may not be so much a hole, as the edge of the universe as we know it. Food for thought.<img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

Considering this hole is lacking matter, I don't see how any gravitational forces would affect surrounding galaxies. AFAIK we are actually in a river of galaxies heading towards the great attractor. I'm not exactly sure where this hole is in relation to the virgo cluster, super cluster, or the great attractor, but I doubt we are headed towards it.<br /><br />As for it being the edge of the universe, I believe how they discovered it excludes that thought. They discovered it by the light passing through it... meaning there is matter/energy on the other side. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

They mention that this hole (I don't like that word) is 6-10 billion light years away. IIRC the great attractor is merely 200+ million away. I think it is far enough away that the metric expansion would preclude us from ever reaching it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[Saiph]

The article actually says it's just a very, very low density region, it obliquely mentions a few galaxies being in there etc.<br /><br />It's essentially like the other voids we see all over the place...it's just much much larger than any of the others. The surprise seems to be that one this big exists, as models and such don't <i>expect</i> it.<br /><br />However I don't know if the models preclude such a void from existing. It could just be a case of the extreme case in a group of relatively normal cases. For instance when you think of mountains, I'm sure you don't envision Olympus Mons as being a typical mountain. Every time I truly realize the scale of that monster I'm just awe struck. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

I understand that. I just don't like how they use words like void and empty... it's misleading. Sensationalism of sorts. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[dragon04]

I was astounded when I read the article. A billion LY wide region of relatively "empty" space is pretty significant.<br /><br />Curiouser and curiouser. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

I'm curious as to what the actual shape is (spherical, flat, or non-symetrical) . I'm sure it didn't start out a billion ly across a few 100k years after the big bang. The evolution of this area might reveal a few things. <br /><br />What kind of forces in the early universe are capable of creating something this significant? I would think that as dense as the universe was that early in it's life, entropy would fill in most of these 'voids'. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[enigma10]

<i><font color="yellow">Considering this hole is lacking matter, I don't see how any gravitational forces would affect surrounding galaxies.</font></i><br /><br /> The lack of any gravity should have an interesting effect all to itself.<br /><br /> <i><font color="yellow">AFAIK we are actually in a river of galaxies heading towards the great attractor.</font></i><br /><br /> One could only guess that "great attractor" isn't stationary as well.<br /><br /><i><font color="yellow">They discovered it by the light passing through it... meaning there is matter/energy on the other side.</font></i><br /><br /> eh?<br /><i><font color="orange">The astronomers drew their conclusion by studying data from the NRAO VLA Sky Survey (NVSS), a project that imaged the entire sky visible to the Very Large Array (VLA) radio telescope, part of the National Science Foundation's National Radio Astronomy Observatory (NRAO). Their study of the NVSS data showed a remarkable drop in the number of galaxies in a region of sky in the constellation Eridanus, southwest of Orion. <br /><br />“We already knew there was something different about this spot in the sky,†Rudnick said. The region had been dubbed the “WMAP Cold Spot,†because it stood out in a map of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB) radiation made by the Wilkinson Microwave Anisotopy Probe (WMAP) satellite, launched by NASA in 2001. The CMB, faint radio waves that are the remnant radiation from the Big Bang, is the earliest “baby picture†available of the Universe. Irregularities in the CMB show structures that existed only a few hundred thousand years after the Big Bang.</font></i><br /><br /> From what i can tell, they discovered it because it was a cold spot. Devoid of the regular CMB and visible matter. <br /><br /> It would be interesting to see if there was any commonality among the galaxies close to the edge of this thing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Holes are every where .Black hole,worm hole,white hole and now universal hole........................................................................................

 

[enigma10]

Don't forget the hole in the whitehouse. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[dutchie]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>At nearly a billion miles across... how could you miss it?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>...miles...??? I thought I read light years..<br />

 

[enigma10]

lightyears = astronomy miles. *nods*<br /><br /><img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"<font color="#333399">An organism at war with itself is a doomed organism." - Carl Sagan</font></em> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

"<i>The lack of any gravity should have an interesting effect all to itself.</i>"<br /><br />How so? I should think any surrounding galaxies would simply experience fewer perturbations. Maybe the lack of gravity exacerbates the situation by not being able to attract matter into the area.<br /><br />"<i>One could only guess that "great attractor" isn't stationary as well.</i>"<br /><br />I think we can do better than guess. I'm pretty sure it is a fact that nothing in the Universe is stationary from relative points of view.<br /><br />"<i>From what i can tell, they discovered it because it was a cold spot.</i>"<br /><br />Indeed, however, it is not because it is "<i>devoid of the regular CMB</i>." The rest of the article that I didn't paste goes on to explain how it is 'cold':<br /><br /><font color="orange">Astronomers wondered if the cold spot was intrinsic to the CMB, and thus indicated some structure in the very early Universe, or whether it could be caused by something more nearby through which the CMB had to pass on its way to Earth. Finding the dearth of galaxies in that region by studying NVSS data resolved that question. <br /><br />“Although our surprising results need independent confirmation, the slightly lower temperature of the CMB in this region appears to be caused by a huge hole devoid of nearly all matter roughly 6-10 billion light-years from Earth,†Rudnick said. <br /><br />How does a lack of matter cause a lower temperature in the Big Bang’s remnant radiation as seen from Earth" <br /><br />The answer lies in dark energy, which became a dominant force in the Universe very recently, when the Universe was already three-quarters of the size it is today. Dark energy works opposite gravity and is speeding up the expansion of the Universe. Thanks to dark energy, CMB photons that pass through a large void just before arriving at Earth have less energy than those that pass through an area with a normal distribution of matter in the last leg of their journey.</font> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[silylene old]

This is just too weird. I am wondering whther they find that there was an error in their calibration and there is no hole.<br /><br />Anyways, a picture tells it all: <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

They did mention they need independant confirmation. I'm sure we haven't heard the last word on this. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[alkalin]

I take the simplistic view that the CMB is the result of reemitted black-body radiation everywhere in the universe and will therefore not be very evident where there is a lack of matter or a so-called hole somewhere.

 

[derekmcd]

Here is a link to the paper that has been submitted to the 'Astrophysical Journal'. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[scipt]

This was the part of the universe that God was supposed to make on the 7th day.... <br /><br />I bet Mrs God is always nagging him, 'Lord When are you going to fix that damned hole?' <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>