Hole in the Universe

Kalstang · Aug 25, 2007

A few questions here. Could a black hole be the reason for these "voids"? One that has sucked up everything that it could so that we can't "see" the event horizon? There by makeing it appear as though there is nothing there? Or little to nothing? Could it be a form of anti gravity? Pushing everything away? We know so little about the nature of the universe...... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. "Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~ Guns dont kill people. People kill people.Solar System </div>

emperor_of_localgroup · Aug 25, 2007

I bet Mrs God is always nagging him, 'Lord When are you going to fix that damned hole?' God: don't you worry, its just a small hole, no one will notice. Mrs God: What about those pesky animals you are making on earth? God: ya, sure, they don't have a prayer. Now serious. Kalstang: That's an interesting possibility, a real black hole. But doesn't it violate Hawking's radiating black holes? Shouldn't this discovery make bing bang theorists cautious when they use CMB as a supporting evidence of big bang? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Earth is Boring </div>

derekmcd · Aug 25, 2007

"Could a black hole be the reason for these "voids"? One that has sucked up everything that it could so that we can't "see" the event horizon? There by makeing it appear as though there is nothing there? Or little to nothing?" A couple things... First, this isn't a true void, just lacking the normal amount of matter that we would expect to find. Second, this 'void' is close to 1 billion ly across. ONE Billion. That would be an incredibly enormous black hole with an unprecedented mass dwarfing supermassive black holes we find at the center of galaxies. The reason this void was detected was due to the lack of mass by looking at the light pass through. "Could it be a form of anti gravity? Pushing everything away? " We can detect the mass of ojbects via gravitational lensing. I would think anti-gravity would have the opposite (yet still observable) effect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

derekmcd · Aug 25, 2007

" Shouldn't this discovery make bing bang theorists cautious when they use CMB as a supporting evidence of big bang?" In short, no. This isn't a hole in the CMB. The CMB passing through the hole is losing energy and showing up as a cold spot. It is a secondary effect on the CMB after the CMB was initially scattered. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

alokmohan · Aug 25, 2007

I find your talk LOGICAL.Get high grade.

Saiph · Aug 25, 2007

What is in the hole to take the energy from the CMB? The article stated there isn't even dark matter there, let alone anything else to leech off of the CMB. My guess is the cold spot in the CMB indicates a low level of energy/matter when the CMB was created, thus resulting in a void. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

derekmcd · Aug 25, 2007

Integrated Sachs-Wolfe Effect Basically stating that photons gain and lose energy as they pass through a gravity well. Without any significant gravity well, the expansion of space (dark energy) is dominate and redshifts the photon (loses energy) which makes it appear cooler than the surrounding space. The link explains it far better than I can. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

dragon04 · Aug 25, 2007

Maybe there was an almost equal concentration of matter and anti-matter in that region and they poofed themselves? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

MeteorWayne · Aug 25, 2007

That's a very interesting idea! If that was the case, early in the Universe there would have been a huge pulse of 511KV radiation from this area. Wonder what those effects would have been in addition to the "no matter left" hole. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Saiph · Aug 25, 2007

So the coolness is really just a consequence of the cosmological expansionary redshift eh? I'll take a look at that link too. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> --------------------SaiphMOD@gmail.com -------------------"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink" </div>

ghgore · Aug 25, 2007

Considering an area with little to no matter would be volitile in the presense of added matter.... spark. Density to "breathing room" (photon movement) to lacking in matter (low energy light waves)... photon interactions creating more and more energy as it expands and gains momentum. Speed of light gaining in rate. Considering the universe is rapidly expanding and moving away from its initial state. And, if so, wouldn't it make sense for Ground Zero to be the stress point, taking on the largest bulk of "stretch" for lack of a better word. The "edge" of the expanding universe possesses the most matter (Hubble on 8/9 discovered the most massive and bright galaxies forming at 12 Billion light years away). Considering Copernican Principal, that the view would be equal for any point of observation from any place in the universe... I may need to check my figures, but isn't this void from 6-10 Billion Light Years away and our most distant observed galaxies are over 13 Billion LY (My guess is the actual distance to the Vast Void is approximately 6.5 Billion LY). At the time that matter has run out in the expansion, photon energy weakens and begins interactions with areas of greater matter (collapse), until ultimately momentum brings this force back to ground zero. I'm just running with it now... parallel universe portal? If this was the original location, could it be possible that a parallel universe predated this one - The introduction of light's origin. For that to take place wouldn't there be a need to slow and weaken (waves/photons) in the transfer (which is a tendency of this anamoly)?

trek9 · Aug 26, 2007

Perhaps its a great solar system that has adapted a cloacking device to hide from us.

Swampcat · Aug 26, 2007

"Perhaps its a great solar system that has adapted a cloacking device to hide from us." Perhaps the Vogon Constructor Fleet has been busy <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

Kalstang · Aug 26, 2007

A couple things... First, this isn't a true void, just lacking the normal amount of matter that we would expect to find. Second, this 'void' is close to 1 billion ly across. ONE Billion. That would be an incredibly enormous black hole with an unprecedented mass dwarfing supermassive black holes we find at the center of galaxies. The reason this void was detected was due to the lack of mass by looking at the light pass through. Ok. How about if there was a super black hole in that area at one point? Long long ago in the distant past. Scientists have theorized that eventually a black hole would/will dissipate. Perhaps that is what happened there? The resulting void can now have a little bit of matter in it (perhaps what was left of the now defunct black hole). Granted the black hole we'd be talking about would have to have come from a galaxy type black hole (only an even bigger black hole) but why not? I see no reason that a black hole could not be that size. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. "Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~ Guns dont kill people. People kill people.Solar System </div>

derekmcd · Aug 26, 2007

"So the coolness is really just a consequence of the cosmological expansionary redshift eh? That's how they are explaining it and it makes sense to me. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

derekmcd · Aug 26, 2007

"photon interactions creating more and more energy as it expands and gains momentum. Speed of light gaining in rate." Not exactly. The photon gains and/or loses energy via redshift. The speed of the photon does not change (unless it is absorbed and re-emitted in a dense medium). "Considering Copernican Principal, that the view would be equal for any point of observation from any place in the universe..." I believe your are referring to the Cosmological Principal in which the universe is homogeneous and isotropic on large scales. "Considering the universe is rapidly expanding and moving away from its initial state. And, if so, wouldn't it make sense for Ground Zero to be the stress point, taking on the largest bulk of "stretch" for lack of a better word. The "edge" of the expanding universe possesses the most matter (Hubble on 8/9 discovered the most massive and bright galaxies forming at 12 Billion light years away). " You are viewing the Big Bang as a physical explosion which is not what we observe. With the comsological principle I linked above, the Big Bang is the expansion of space from everypoint in the Universe. Not just 1 single point as would be with an explosion. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

derekmcd · Aug 26, 2007

"Ok. How about if there was a super black hole in that area at one point? Long long ago in the distant past. Scientists have theorized that eventually a black hole would/will dissipate. Perhaps that is what happened there?" That might be something possible in the far, far, far future. If you are referring to Hawking Radiation even a stellar black hole of one solar mass would take 10^67 years to radiate away. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

derekmcd · Aug 26, 2007

"...miles...??? I thought I read light years.. " Ahem.... oops <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

alokmohan · Aug 26, 2007

That explains the hole.

Kalstang · Aug 26, 2007

That might be something possible in the far, far, far future. If you are referring to Hawking Radiation even a stellar black hole of one solar mass would take 10^67 years to radiate away. Assuming of course that Hawkings was correct <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />. And that the age that we have as the age of the universe (13.7billion years old) correct. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. "Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~ Guns dont kill people. People kill people.Solar System </div>

derekmcd · Aug 26, 2007

True indeed, but well thought out scientific theories are not based on negative assumptions. In other words, you can not simply say "my hypothesis that can be rejected by current prevailing theories might work if I assume current prevailing theories are incorrect." Well... you can say that, but you will not get very far with it <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div> <div>"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</div> </div>

Kalstang · Aug 26, 2007

True enough. But I also believe that you must always question everything the "experts" say since we really know very very little about our universe. Sometimes all it takes is one plus sign, negative sign or one dot outta place to throw the whole thing "lightyears" in the wrong direction. Especially when your dealing with so many unknown variables. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. "Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~ Guns dont kill people. People kill people.Solar System </div>

onesimple · Aug 27, 2007

Lets think a bout that way. Every galaksy is very big photon. All universe what we can see, moving very fast far away from one point and this one point is far a way outside our universe what you can see. All our atoms born after that when our galaksy, big "photons" coming out one level bigger star. Some galaksy, big "photons" stop some one level bigger komets and other galaksy who going near one level bigger komets, start pushing themselves this area, where this galaksy moving before they stop. So, later this galaksy goming this empty area centrum and this galaksy keep moving after that far a way from this area centrum and now we can see this very big empty area over there. http://www.onesimpleprinciple.com Onesimple <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

chardin · Aug 28, 2007

GHGore, I find your post to be the most intelligent. I highly suspect that the newly discovered Hole is in fact the center of our universe, in addition to being the Ground Zero of the big bang. One important note: this universe must be rotating on its own. Not ready to say much here about my Theory of Everything, but if anyone is interested in learning one half picture of reality, I recommend one book, Before the Big Bang, by Ernest J. Sternglass. Many fundamental problems, including the nature of the so-called "dark energy", had been satisfactorily answered by Sternglass. Think of the centre of a hurricane...

ashish27 · Aug 30, 2007

the billion light year hole may not be exactly void. After all it may contain something that our instruments can't detect or something we yet don't understand. This area of the sky needs further research. (Just a reminder for Trek fans, in one episode of StarTrek Voyager, they showed photo-sensitive creatures living in such a void in space)

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