Home made rocket engine

[JonClarke]

A friend of mine builds liquid fueled rocket engines as a hobby. I thoiugh people would be interested in his his latest creation, pressure fed with gaseous oxygen and kerosene.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Here's the picture.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

First test run. There was a problem with the instrumentation so he was not able to measure the thrust accurately, but it was roughly 40 kg. The plan is to modify the engine incrementally, substituting liquid for gasesous O2, modifying the injectors, and increasing the engine pressure from 2 bar to 10 bar. Hope goes to to eventually get about 150 kg of thrust from the engine.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[tplank]

Very cool. It is great to see projects like this. Does he maintain a website? I'd love to see more. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>The Disenfranchised Curmudgeon</p><p>http://tonyplank.blogspot.com/ </p> </div>

 

[lampblack]

Now that is a serious hobby. More power to your friend! <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Does he have any applications in mind? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">More power to your friend!</font>/i><br /><br />Maybe that should be "More thrust to your friend" <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /></i>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p> pressure fed with gaseous oxygen and kerosene<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Pressure fed you say ? What could he do with one of flometrics rocket fuel pumps ?<br />http://www.rocketfuelpump.com

 

[henryhallam]

Impressive stuff. Second the request for a website with more details!

 

[rocketman5000]

judging by the exhaust plume and its underexpansion in the nozzle he can probably get a bit more thrust out of the motor even at current combutsion pressures<br />

 

[PistolPete]

It could also be said that the afterburners on military fighter jet engines are also pressure fed gaseous oxygen rocket engines. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Glad people likes it! Some more details, which could be slightly in error as it's based on what I heard over the phone.<br /><br />It did a number of burns, each of about 20 seconds, and suffered no damage. Time limit for the burns is the amount of propellant, which was kept small as a safey precuation. I assume this will be increased in a later modification.<br /><br />The pressure is supplied by nitrogen, he will move to helium at a future date when he shifts to LOX as the oxidiser.<br /><br />The engine is made out of a brazed copper alloy wound with stainless steel cable for additional strength. Although not strictly necessary for an engine of this size, it is liquid cooled using water. He will change this to fuel cooling in a later modification.<br /><br />Long term he wants to build a new engine using a stainless steel chamber and run on either hydrogen or methane.<br /><br />A whole bunch of images will probably go up on the Mars Society Australia's web site in due course (he is a director) although it is not an MSA project, it is just his hobby. The MSA web site is marssociety.org.au , there was also a professional documentary film maker there videoing proceedings and there may a short item for one of the science programs on TV. <br /><br />Here is the engine team, Dave whose baby it is, is in the middle. Note the young apprentice!<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

Now *that's* a budding young nerd. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[rybanis]

Entirely too cool! I kind of want to build one. It looks like it would be pricey as all get out though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I have not dared ask how much it cost! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

Is he responsible for that burn off over Tidbinbilla way? <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The test was in Tasmania! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[mithridates]

What are the laws for individual rocket launches? I haven't launched a rocket since the model ones I launched a few times when I was a kid in the 80s. It varies by country and the countries I live in are Korea, Japan and sometimes Canada (where I'm from) and I wonder if the average person is just allowed to launch a rocket here. Down at the Han River you can see a lot of people flying model helicopters so I assume there's some model rocketry here too.<br /><br />Edit: doing a search, yes there seems to be quite a bit. http://tobit.yonsei.ac.kr/~gifted/photo/2002_2.html <br />I guess for Korean-related laws I should just check myself. What about other countries though? Is there an altitude limit for individuals? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I am not sure what the laws are here. the biggest conern would be fire risk, I suspect.<br /><br />Of course, as this was just an engine test and my friend has, as yet no desire to build a flying model, it is very theoretical.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Is there an altitude limit for individuals?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote> First try consulting http://www.tripoli.org/ . Its US-based but has international presence in 22 other countries. <br /> Then AMA ( http://www.modelaircraft.org ) and FAI rules.

 

[henryhallam]

In the UK you need an explosives licence to own and transport solid motors using ammonium perchlorate propellant (in practice this is all motors of class E and larger). Liquid/hybrid motors generally don't need an explosives licence though you should comply with laws about safe use of gas cylinders.<br /><br />If you can find a launch site well away from commercial airspace, and the rocket is classified as "small" according to the Air Navigation Order, less than 1500 Ns total impulse IIRC, you do not need special permission from the CAA (but it is easy to get and worthwhile IMO). Third party liability insurance is probably worth having. Organisations such as the UKRA provide this for their members as well as launch support etc. They have special rules for "experimental" launches such as those with active stabilisation, hybrid motors etc.<br /><br />Along with two other guys I am currently in the design phase for a smallish rocket to reach 100km... (hint: we're going to cheat)

 

[josh_simonson]

Probably more pricy in fabrication time than actual materials.

 

[PistolPete]

Anything above 18,000 ft. is known as Class A airspace. There are only two ways to legally enter Class A airspace: One is to have a radar transponder, file an IFR flight plan, and the opperator must posess an IFR rating. Seeing as how that is impossible for model rockets, the only way around that is to call the FAA (or your nations aviation athority) and let them know that you are going to launch a model rocket that is expected to enter Class A airspace, where you plan to launch it, and when. There will probobly be some paperwork that you'll have to fill out, and there are most likely restrictions on when and where you can launch.<br /><br />Since you live by the Han river, you most likely live in or near Seoul (frequent Itaewon? one of my favorite places was Gecko's <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> ), you will also have to be aware of the Class B airspace around Incheon-Seoul International, and the Class C airspace around Gimpo. In fact, it would probobly be best to launch around the center of the penisula (if you can even find a flat place <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) or along the less populated east coast.<br /><br />If you are willing to deal with the ROK military (or, more appropriatly, if the ROK military is willing to deal with you), there is a very small ROK AF station called Chul-Mae range on the southern end of Daechon Beach. I did my Air Defence live-fire there, and I know that the airspace around there is restricted for that purpose. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The Australian Space Research Institute ASRIis an all-volunteer organisation. They are able to use the military ranges at Woomera in South Australia ands Graytown Victoria for its launches. They develop their own liquid rocket and solid rocketss and use modified military surplus Zuni rockets for student experiments.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[trailrider]

Good on you and your mate, mate!<br /><br />Takes me back to the early 1960's when I was designing and static testing 55 lbf fuming nitric acid/analine rocket engines. They were uncooled, as the propellant flow rates weren't high enough to have permitted regenerative cooling without boiling the propellant being used for cooling. A larger one (in the 200 lbf) class could have been regeneratively cooled, but I started college right after the last series of static tests, and never had access to a test facility like the one I was able to get to use at a well-known university. (I didn't attend there, unfortunately!)<br /><br />To keep the combustion chamber and nozzle from burning up, I utilized Hastelloy C and Hastelloy X, and had the same outfit that coated the XLR-99 for the X-15 flame-spray a layer of zirconium oxide on the inside surfaces.<br /><br />I poured over a book called, "Rocket Combustion Elements" by George P. Sutton, while in high school. The school was tolerant in allowing me to do small experiments with Red Fuming Nitric Acid and analine in the chem lab. (The lab had high ceilings!) Experimented with mixture ratios poured into steel cans. Took LOTS of precautions. This propellant combination was well-known and had fewer potential hazards than LOX in handling. All you had to do was avoid inhaling the fumes, and keep your skin protected. Although LOX (LO2) is non-toxic, all it takes is the presence of a very small amount of hydrocarbon to cause a nasty explosion. Therefore, connector threads, pipes, tubing, etc., must be thoroughly decontaminated from any oils that were used in the manufacturing process.<br /><br />From the photo, I'd say that the GO2/kerosene rocket is not getting a proper mixture or the chamber pressure is way too low. If it were burning correctly, there should be a nice, tight flame and shock diamonds should be visible in the exhaust. Not to be critical, just an observation. Had a similar problem on my initial series of tests due

 

[JonClarke]

I dunno, considering what fuming nitric acid and analine can do to you I think I would rather take my chances with oxygen! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />Your observations about the flame colour are quite right. Remember this was the first test, and pressure was deliberately kept low (2 bar) for safety reasons. My friend Dave hopes to incrementally increase the pressure to 10 bars. He also will be making some modifications to the injectors. So he is confident of seeing nice shock diamonds in the exhaust jet by the time he is finished.<br /><br />Dave certainly is that rare an marvelous combination, an engineer with a first rate grasp of theory and principles and with tremendous hands on skills as well. It's been a pleasure and an honour working with him on other projects.<br /><br />Below is a view of the inside of the engine head showing the injectors.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>