How long would we live if the sun just went out?

[stormhelm]

If you put a steamy cup of coffee in the refrigerator, it wouldn’t immediately turn cold. Likewise, if the sun simply “turned off” (which is actually physically impossible), the Earth would stay warm—at least compared with the space surrounding it—for a few million years. But we surface dwellers would feel the chill much sooner than that.
obviously impossible but hisquestion didnt ask the "impossible" just a hypothetical 1 DUH!!! even a banana republic female like me knows that!
in any event who cares!
xoxo

LNK TO ARTICLE

Looks like submarines are our best bet.

:lol:

 

[MeteorWayne]

http://members.shaw.ca/totality/2001/iB ... sults.html

(Nice graph there!)


Zimbabwe, June 21, 2001

The 150cm level showed a total drop of about 4°C.
The 30cm level showed a total drop of about 7°C.
The 0cm level showed an initial drop of about 7°C, levelled, then dropped an additonal 3°C for a total drop of 10°C.
The buried dial thermometer showed a total drop of about 2°C

......................

Here's another showing ~ 10 F for an annular eclipse

http://www.eclipsetours.com/results.html

They didn't give the sensor height.

.............................

And here's an impressive piece of work including meausrements of air temperature at 2m (~ 2.5C) and 5 cm (~ 7C), wind speed and direction, solar radiation, reflectance, solar colour temperature....wow, very impressive!! (4.6 MB pdf)

Secondary Scholarly Activity 2006/2007
Branch – 02 Physics
The Changes of Meteorological and Physical
Quantities during Annular and Total Solar Eclipse
Author:
Miloslav Machon
3 E
Grammar School Cheb
Nerudova 7
350 40 Cheb
Expert Consultants:
Lumir Honzik
Observatory and Planetarium in Plzen
Vaclav Svab
ENVIC – Environmental Information
Centrum Plzen
Mgr. Karel Martinek
Grammar School Cheb
English Language Consultants:
Ing. Dalibor Boubin
Zbysek Ouhleda
Cheb, 2007
The Karlovy Vary Region
The Czech Republic
2
Annotation
The subject of this work is a study of the changes of meteorological and physical
quantities during annular and total solar eclipse. Its content is founded on the measurements
of the quantities that were implemented during annular solar eclipse in Spain in 2005 and total
solar eclipse in 2006 in Turkey.

http://hvezdarna.plzen.eu/zatmeni/semm/eng/semm_en.pdf

 

[SteveCNC]

time to hang out at Yellowstone mud pits

 

[tpeezy]

Wow, thank you all for all the feed back. I understood most of what you guys were saying, but some of it flew right over my head like all the math and all that stuff. I know it was kind of a stupid question and all its just sometimes I ask the all important question of what if, and sometimes its about things that probably will never happen. Thanks again for all the info.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

A side note: If the heat output from radioactive decay in a planet is high enough and the atmosphere is thick with greenhouse gasses it is possible to have a livable planet without a star.

IIRC, the contribution of Earth's own inner turmoils accounts for somewhere around 4% of our temperature, give or take. (max maybe 8% ? - not sure on that) IMO, that's a tad over-estimated but, I have no real knowledge to support my assertion. In that case, unless someone managed to turn up the heat on a global scale, it'd get sort of chilly fairly quickly.

I'd put most of our chances at no longer than a week at the surface. After that, it'd just be a matter of waiting for the last holdouts to die off. For those on the surface with a bunch of fuel and good shelter, they could survive for a bit longer. Under sufficient insulation with artificial means, if prepared, it's possible some humans could survive far longer in prepared subterranean lairs. But, the lack of a sufficiently dynamic breeding population of 10,000+ would render us susceptible to a host of problems, ending in our eventual decline and extinction. (estimated necessary population, IIRC) Eventually, even if we survived all the hurdles, pockets of humanity would suffocate to death unless they began cracking oxygen out of subterranean water or surface ice. (I suppose it's possible to generate the necessary atmosphere solely by using plants to recycle it. But, that would have to be a very, very prepared contingency. Someone would really have to know a lot that we don't in order to predict a dead Sun.)

The Sun going dark would render all surface life on Earth extinct, eventually. Some extremophiles may live on deep underground and some complex organisms would continue to exist in the deep seas. (It is surmised by some that has been the refuge of life during such events as a Snowball Earth, if one holds to that possibility.) But, Earth would certainly no longer be the Galactic Tourist Trap of Life that it is today.

 

[3488]

Excellent post a_lost_packet.

There would likely be pockets of extremophiles around geothermal vents, volcanoes, etc. Wonder if the oceans would frreze all the way to the ocean floors? I suspect so given time away from submarine volcanoes.

Otherwise as A-L-P says, the surface of Earth would be rendered uninhabitable.

Jupiter's moon Io is a great example. Temperatures are in Kelvin.

Whislt still chilly by Earth standards, it demonstrates that despite being approx 5.2 AU from the Sun orbiting Jupiter or receiving approx 4% of solar energy Earth does, volcanic hotspots keep surrounding areas very warm. However between them, it is bitterly cold, around minus 146 C at the equator, closer to minus 170 C at the poles on Io.

Io nightside temps Galileo

Loki Patera Io temps.

Andrew Brown.

 

[SpeedFreek]

Have you ever experienced (in real life, on the ground, not in front of your keyboard) a near-total solar eclipse?

Yup, twice, and it did indeed get cold both times, but not even as cold as night.

Anyway, I was responding to your estimate that we would live only 8 minutes, or a little longer due to the residual heat. It seems that estimates range from a day to a week, with some pockets of humans lasting for months or more.

 

[ndelange74]

If we had some warning to prepare, and if we actually made the effort to build the required infrastructure, I expect that we'd stand a pretty good chance of surviving. We could move underground, or build undersea cities, which could be heated both by Earth's natural geothermal processes, and by nuclear and other conventional energy sources. Plants do not require sunlight per se; instead, any source of the right light-frequency would do for food plants to be grown in hydroponic gardens, with the added advantage of serving as natural oxygen-generators. Neither would the seas freeze solid - only the top few kilometers would freeze, while the bottom kilometer or so of the sea would remain unfrozen because of the planet's heat radiation.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

If we had some warning to prepare, and if we actually made the effort to build the required infrastructure, I expect that we'd stand a pretty good chance of surviving. We could move underground, or build undersea cities, which could be heated both by Earth's natural geothermal processes, and by nuclear and other conventional energy sources. Plants do not require sunlight per se; instead, any source of the right light-frequency would do for food plants to be grown in hydroponic gardens, with the added advantage of serving as natural oxygen-generators. Neither would the seas freeze solid - only the top few kilometers would freeze, while the bottom kilometer or so of the sea would remain unfrozen because of the planet's heat radiation.

An interesting proposal.

But, could we do that? Could we build some sort of undergound bunker that would "save" humanity? Personally, I don't think so. We can't even build a Habitat that is totally enclosed and self-sustaining right now, much less build one that would house a healthy population.

IIRC, there's some rich guy in the Mid-Western US that is building his undergound empire in an old salt mine or some such. So, maybe he'll survive long enough to write our epitaph. But, he'll eventually die and unless he has a sustainable population, it's pretty much going to be a case of a very short-lived race of morlocks down there. (I hear he has tanks though... fat lot of good that will do him in this scenario.)

While the seas may not freeze solid, there would be other problems that could effect deepwater extremophiles. All that ice is a lot of dead weight.. It's going to press heavily on the continents, possibly causing serious problems with earthquakes and vulcanism. The deepsea extremophiles live in a very, very delicate environment. Communities of them have been wiped out by earthquakes and undersea vulcanism which removed their energy sources. The abyssal plane is also not a healthy traveling environment. But, it's not all bad. It does appear that life will eventually try to take up residence near new smokers and the like, if opportunity presents itself. But, what happens when there are long periods of activity that make the system chaotic? Chances are, not many would survive the initial disruptions.

If we KNEW it was going to happen (even though the event itself is impossible) I don't think we could do much about ensuring our continued existence. It's possible that with enough evidence, people would accept it and try to do something about it. But, it would take a worldwide effort, IMO, to do what was necessary to have even the smallest chance of surviving. Even then, the ultimate goal wouldn't be to survive on a Sunless Earth but to survive long enough to escape to somewhere that was more amenable to humanity. The chances of us being able to do that with the hardships that even simple survival would bring would be very slim, I think.

 

[amshak]

Not more than a hour,i'll say.
The temparature comes down in fraction of minutes. But not very fast. because even earth liberates heat [the heated surface] . Photosysnthes cannot take place. Alternative measures can be made for humen beings. But ask yourself , for how long?
The water bodies freezes , plants die. The life colapses. We all die. :geek:

 

[MeteorWayne]

Nibiru post moved to this discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18547&start=220

 

[3488]

Nibiru post moved to this discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=17&t=18547&start=220

Unfortunately Wayne, this is going to get worse as 2012 approaches


Anyway, the idea of subterranean tunnels & caverns is interesting. The geothermal heat budget of Earth will not change, the outer core will still remain molten generating a magnetosphere & plate tectonics will continue.

However as demonstrated with the Io heat maps I posted earlier, rock is a very poor conductor & even a short distance away from a volcano or hot spot the surface temperatures will be cryonically cold.

A good example is the current eruption of the Iceland Eyjafjallajökull Volcano. There is still snow on the lower flanks & it's been erupting since mid March!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if the hotspots & volcanoes on Earth would prevent Earth's atmosphere from condensing out completely??? Volcanoes will still produce huge amounts of CO2 & SO2 particularly, though they would freeze out away from the vent. perhaps like Io, Earth would have a patchy atmosphere??

Andrew Brown.

 

[Witgren]

Most plantlife is going to die within a couple of days between a lack of sunlight and rapidly dropping temperatures, and that's going to be accompanied by a massive die-off of animal life. For the animals it'll be a combination of cold, lack of food, lack of light (for critters that function in daylight, total darkness is not going to be their friend). The omnivores and carnivores may last a little longer as they may be able to feed on the dead, but they also are going to suffer massively from the cold after a couple of days and lack of light (even nocturnal animals will probably have difficulty - there won't be any moonlight, so everything is going to be dependent 100% on starlight for vision).

The result of all this for mankind is going to be very unpleasant. A large part of the population in undeveloped and underdeveloped areas is going to probably die within the first few days, largely due to cold (how many people in equatorial regions or slum areas are going to be well-equipped to deal with sudden extreme cold coupled with total darkness?). Developed areas may last a little longer by virtue of better shelter and clothing and possibly electric power, at least for short time. People in northern temperate areas will have cold weather gear and clothing that will help. But without light, getting around is going to very difficult and food acquisition for most is going to be confined to what's close at hand. As temps get colder, within a few days water is going to be a problem by virtue of having to thaw frozen water for drinking or any other use.

Bottom line, probably 99+% of mankind is dead within 1-2 weeks, as is 99% of the rest of life on the planet. The most succesful critters after that are going to be deep cave dwellers and deep undersea critters that live in and around volcanic vents and don't depend on sunlight. For mankind, what few are left may survive a little longer living off of stored food reserves and fuel but by then the cold is going to be so extreme that's even doubtful. Once food or fule are gone, one by one what little enclaves are left are going to wink out. You might have some hardcore survivalists or military in deep underground bunkers surviving on for awhile, but it won't be a life worth living.

 

[ElmiraViking]

Oh, but wouldn't Global Warming buy us a few years ?. /sarcasm

 

[PhysX]

What about the absence of the Suns gravity? Smashing into the moon would warm things up a bit.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Well, first, the moon would continue to orbit the earth.

Second,, the OP said nothing about the sun's mass going away, just "going out", not disappearing.

 

[silylene]

A variant discussion of the original post could be:

"What if the sun's visible light emissions just went out" ? (assume the emissions in the infrared and other wavelengths continued)

This might be an interesting discussion also. At least it wouldn't lead (nearly as immediately) to a snowball earth.

 

[Couerl]

Well let's say we had 10 years to prepare, I imagine we'd have time to excavate a large compound, drop a nuke in it to keep it powered, store away plenty of food, water, fuel and all of the goodies we'd need to keep 10,000 people alive for quite some time. Of-course the rest of the world's population would become corpsicles rather quickly and life might get a little boring watching re-runs on the old dvd player, but I'm not sure that wouldn't matter much to me and my 9,999 perfect female specimens. :ugeek:

 

[a_lost_packet_]

A variant discussion of the original post could be:

"What if the sun's visible light emissions just went out" ? (assume the emissions in the infrared and other wavelengths continued)

This might be an interesting discussion also. At least it wouldn't lead (nearly as immediately) to a snowball earth.

Hmm... a dark sun proposal?

Just for curiosity's sake, what could be the composition of such a star? What process could emit other wavelengths of radiation without visible light and still be a "star?" (Not that we really need an answer, since this is a hypothetical exercise to begin with. But, something really nasty is probably in the menu..)

 

[silylene]

I like your dark sun picture.

With a dark sun, we would lose the benefit of a greenhouse effect. The earth would chill, just not as fast. Perhaps the tropics wouldn't glaciate over?

We would need to farm mushrooms.

I think advanced life could live on for several years, living off the detritus of the decaying. Advanced life could live near the 'smokers' under the sea for ages. Bacteria would live on forever. Perhaps one day a new lifeform would evolve that could photosynthesize some aspect of infrared light.

 

[Astro_Robert]

For those who are citing total solar eclipse as an example, I cite sitting in the shade on a breezy sunny afternoon in the summer. Or even simply being outside doing something at sunset. The perceived temperature drop is due to many factors and are not a good indicator of what might happen if the sun were to magically stop radiating.

When I sit in the shade the direct sunlight no longer touches me so I 'feel' cooler as a result of the decrease in radiative energy transport. Also the wind is blowing representing a continuation of highly efficient convective energy transport, so again I 'feel' cooler, meanwhile the air is the same under the tree in the shade as it is out in the field in the sunlight. In an eclipse, the area of shade is much larger and probably does have small localized effects. Small since an eclipse only lasts a few minutes out of ~12 hours of sunshine, and local as the percent of the sunlit hemisphere darkened by the eclipse is rather small (In an annular eclipse there is no umbra at all).

 

[Fomalhautian]

We would need to farm mushrooms.

:lol: Underwater mushroom farmers..... sounds like the next Phish album.

There is hope though. I thought I read something a while back about a green sulfur bacterium known to need visible light for photosynthesis, found underwater where the only light source was geothermal radiation.

 

[a_lost_packet_]

I like your dark sun picture.

I hotlinked it from Discover's site. It's UV Sun composite (IIRC) the closest I could find to something like a "Dark Sun."

With a dark sun, we would lose the benefit of a greenhouse effect. The earth would chill, just not as fast. Perhaps the tropics wouldn't glaciate over?

Well, first we'd have to figure out what a "Dark Sun" would radiate if it wasn't visible light? What could it possibly be made of in that case? Would anything particularly nasty be accompanying such radiation given its required composition. I don't fancy living next to some dark neutron star... I don't think they make sunscreen for that.

We would need to farm mushrooms.

I like mushrooms. We'd definitely have to farm them along with a host of other plants, though. And, that requires power for artificial lighting. Where are we going to get it? Dams would be out. Nuclear is possible but, we'd have to tap into underground water supplies to convert the energy to something we could use. Coal would work just so long as we don't end up setting a seam on fire. That would be.. unpleasant. We'd still have to figure out a way to either scrub the gasses or get them above ground. Oil would work but, we'd probably want to be very careful. A popped cap could flood our living space. Natural gas would, unfortunately, be a constant problem. We'd probably have to install burners all over the place which may compromise our own oxygen supply... not fun. I suppose we could just concrete everything off to protect against that but, that's a lot of concrete too and.. /etc ad nauseum difficulties to overcome..

I think advanced life could live on for several years, living off the detritus of the decaying.

Perhaps. As temps decrease, decaying would happen at a much slower rate. The little critters that do the work would take a siesta. But, as it got colder, finding something to eat would quickly become a secondary problem, I would think.

Advanced life could live near the 'smokers' under the sea for ages. Bacteria would live on forever. Perhaps one day a new lifeform would evolve that could photosynthesize some aspect of infrared light.

Well, they may not have to actually photosynthesize it. They could develop mini-steam-engine-like cells that would use the energy to metabolize sugars or whatever it was they ended up using.