Hubble Tension explained (including its value) by the two phase cosmology

[marcin]

I am not following you. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

The reason causal connection matters is because if the inside of the box isn't isolated than it can be causally connected with consciousness. So why do you think this requires me to admit consciousness isn't involved?

The inside of the box can be causally connected with your brain without your consciousness or awareness regarding the hat.

 

[Geoff Dann]

The inside of the box can be causally connected with your brain without your consciousness or awareness regarding the hat.

There must be a causal barrier (in terms of normal, non-spooky, local causality) between everything outside the box and everything inside it. Without that, it is no longer Schrodinger's thought experiment, and no longer interesting or relevant.

 

[Geoff Dann]

Prompt: please explain to marcin why the inside of schrodinger's box must be causally isolated from the outside.

Marcin,

The inside of Schrödinger’s box must be causally isolated from the outside in order to preserve the core logic of quantum superposition and measurement. Here's why:

Superposition requires no external observation:

Quantum mechanics tells us that a system remains in a superposition of states until it is measured. In the Schrödinger's cat thought experiment, the cat is entangled with a quantum event (like a decaying atom), and together they exist in a superposition of “alive” and “dead.” For this superposition to persist, there must be no information leaking from inside the box to the outside—no photons, no vibrations, no trace evidence. Any such leakage would constitute a measurement-like interaction, collapsing the wave function prematurely.

Measurement involves entanglement with the environment:

Once any part of the environment becomes entangled with the system—say, a photon escapes the box carrying information about the cat’s state—the system is no longer in an isolated superposition. It becomes decohered, and the quantum state appears classical to the observer. The box, therefore, must be causally closed to prevent any uncontrolled entanglement or “observer effect” from the outside.

No external causal influence:

For the experiment to demonstrate that the cat’s fate is genuinely indeterminate until observed, the inside must evolve purely according to quantum rules. If the outside world can influence the inside (e.g. temperature, vibrations, gravitational fields), then those influences act as hidden measurements or collapse triggers. That would undermine the entire setup and make the outcome a result of classical influence, not quantum indeterminacy.

This is why it's a thought experiment:

In the real world, perfect isolation is nearly impossible. But the point of Schrödinger's box is conceptual: it’s meant to show how quantum indeterminacy can extend to macroscopic systems if—and only if—the system is sealed off from any interaction that might trigger collapse.

So the causal isolation of the box isn't a technicality—it's the logical condition that allows the quantum state inside to remain in superposition until the box is opened and a measurement is made.

 

[marcin]

I don't care about this explanation, Geoff, because I'm not limited by the constraints of the original thought experiment. You say, that after the modification it's no longer interesting or relevant, because this modification shows, that the decay of a single atom can affect your brain without you knowing it. You might even feel the effect and have no idea that you felt it because of the decay of an atom, so your consciousness couldn't be a cause of the collapse of its wave function.

You showed the same attitude towards the double slit experiment with your eyes closed and opened at the end. Its outcome was not interesting and irrelevant to you because it was clearly showing whether there is a connection between your consciousness and the collapse or not, depending on what you see after you open your eyes. Sadly, you don't prompt your LLM in that case anymore, since it's already told you what you don't want to know, so you called it "garbage out". You see, your whole theory is "garbage in" to me just like all my modifications are "garbage in" to you.

I would say, that it's the original Schrödinger's cat experiment that is worthless, since you know nothing until you look, and this lack of knowledge is great for your theory only because it can't be verified. This thought experiment gave an enormous platform to philosophers like you. Tragically ironically.

 

[Gibsense]

From somewhere back in this fascinating discussion, the following was stated:

• "The past is not fully fixed before psychegenesis.
• The present (after collapse) is what constrains both the future and the inferred past.
• Collapse retroactively selects one consistent, classical metric history, projecting it back from the moment of coherence.
• But: this projection is not the same as a "real" classical past — it is the minimum-coherence history compatible with the present."
• 
  

• Once this expectation is dropped, the problem dissolves.
  No exotic physics, no fudge factors — just a deeper understanding of what it means to say “the past exists” in a quantum-informational universe.

The thing is I notice the compatibility of an amendable past and the principle of a constrainable future (in my case, it is an amendable pre-existing future) with the idea of repreating timewaves (amending a quantum landscape) that continually redifines the past and constrains the future.

This arises from further extension of HET.
However, there can be some philosophical issues in addressing this: Consciousness exists not only at a singular level but also at a community level e.g. single cells/ individual animals linked together to form a higher level e.g. us and us together forming a civilisation (?).
It also extends with a time basis, e'g think of a collection of trees; over time, hundreds of years, (in the wild) it is woodland creeping across the land as it seeds (prevailing wind) and dies as individuals but lives collectively, feeling its way like an organism in a pond!.

The discussion also highlighted the issues of interacting with an AI. Amazing!

 

[Gibsense]

I would say, that it's the original Schrödinger's cat experiment that is worthless, since you know nothing until you look, and this lack of knowledge is great for your theory only because it can't be verified. This thought experiment gave an enormous platform to philosophers like you. Tragically ironically.

But it did prompt discussion of an amendable past. Hawking discussed in one of his books that the present is the result of all possible pasts. Interesting stuff

 

[marcin]

But it did prompt discussion of an amendable past. Hawking discussed in one of his books that the present is the result of all possible pasts. Interesting stuff

Yeah, but it also "created" Geoff. And what do you think about his claim, that his 2PC has already solved 20 foundational problems of QM and cosmology in one go?

Forget I was asking...
https://forums.space.com/threads/more-hyperspace-solutions-to-cosmological-problems.71979/

 

[marcin]

• "The past is not fully fixed before psychegenesis.

It's not fixed after psychegenesis either.

• But: this projection is not the same as a "real" classical past — it is the minimum-coherence history compatible with the present."

What do you think is the difference between minimum-coherence and maximum-coherence history?

 

[Gibsense]

Yeah, but it also "created" Geoff. And what do you think about his claim, that his 2PC has already solved 20 foundational problems of QM and cosmology in one go?

Forget I was asking...
https://forums.space.com/threads/more-hyperspace-solutions-to-cosmological-problems.71979/

Nothing

 

[Geoff Dann]

Yeah, but it also "created" Geoff. And what do you think about his claim, that his 2PC has already solved 20 foundational problems of QM and cosmology in one go?

35 at the latest count, including all the consciousness-cognition stuff.

 

[COLGeek]

This conversation is over.

Even in disagreements, civility is required by all. All of the time.