humanoid bots once again

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no_way

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Some of you might remember an argument here about usefulness of humanoid bots to perform tasks in space environments.<br />Well, the prospects keep getting more and more interesting<br /><br />"Robot Controlled By Brainwave Commands"<br />http://robotgossip.blogspot.com/2006/12/robot-controlled-by-brainwave-commands.html<br /><br />Its a perfect setup for lunar ops for example. You have "human body" on site, able to do all tricks that a human in astronaut suit could do, controlled by human mind, with none of the expenses of actually having humans on site and having to return them to earth.<br /><br />I'd say such guys would be perfect to prepare the manned base before actual humans arrive, and keep it permanently "manned". i.e. Man-tended outpost would become robot-tended, where humans wouldnt have to do any of the maintenance.<br /><br />( BTW, for your daily treat of robotics news, im keeping a collection of feeds at bloglines, http://www.bloglines.com/public/kaidokert )
 
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mithridates

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Wow, I was just about to start a thread on this very subject. I think humanlike robots should be sent to places like Mars and not only given the ability to do what the rovers are doing now, but the ability to give vocal reports on what they are doing, a portable camera they can set up to take their own picture as well instead of just what they see, and a name as well. "The rovers are still on Mars collecting science data" is not as interesting as "Brian just took his own picture standing in the shade next to a big boulder" to the average person. In between these PR-type events the real science can be carried out, and everybody's happy. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>
 
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holmec

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What about for EVA substitute for a crew in earth orbit or moon?<br /><br />I guess this would come under the subject of Virtual Presence that the medical field is experimenting with.<br /><br />If you are going to do it, the limitation would be communication time. If you use a brain wave interface you want the comm time to be almost instantaneous. That would require the human to me within hundreds of miles (guessing) as opposed to thousands of miles away from the bot. <br /><br />But it could save time and provide a safety factor for EVA missions.<br /><br />NASA has a proposed humanoid bot <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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no_way

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"If you use a brain wave interface you want the comm time to be almost instantaneous. "<br /><br />Not so, because you arent trying to do high-fidelity control on low level. They use human brain only for what its best, decisionmaking, and leave the grunt work like motion control to where it belongs, processors on robot.
 
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holmec

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OK, then try doing it long term with your bladder full! So you suggest the person sit for what 6, 8, 14 hours? What?<br /><br />There are limitations to the body you know.<br /><br />And if your doing long ways away, best not to use brain waves but regular joystick and command controls. that way you can do other things while waiting for response time to elapse. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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kdavis007

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I agree. Humans can do a better job in space than robots...
 
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no_way

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"Humans can do a better job in space than robots."<br /><br />Which job exactly ? Would you send a human instead of MRO to circle a red planet and take photos ? <br />Blanket statements like these are pretty .. lets say shortsighted to put it mildly.<br />Japanese are sending robots to drive bulldozers in disaster areas, on earth, now. Would you send humans ?<br />Read about it here, scroll down to "public sector"<br />http://www.pinktentacle.com/2006/12/top-10-robots-selected-for-robot-award-2006/<br /><br />These remote-control unmanned construction machines were originally developed for dangerous recovery operations following disasters such as avalanches and rockslides. Designed to prevent the occurrence of secondary disasters and greatly limit further damage and injury, these robots were deployed at the site of a disastrous mudslide that occurred in Okinawa in June 2006<br />
 
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radarredux

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A mjaor advantage of humanoid robots is that they can interact well in an environment tuned for humans. For example, having a robot with human-like hands could hold/use the same tools as humans, so only one set of tools need to be brought on a mission.<br /><br />A major advantage of a brainwave driven computer/robot is to help the disable to help a regular person who is already heavily multitasked.<br /><br />I am not sure how the two together are an enabling technology for human space explorations.
 
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radarredux

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> <i><font color="yellow">I think humanlike robots should be sent to places like Mars and not only given the ability to do what the rovers are doing now, but the ability to ...</font>/i><br /><br />One approach would be to send a prototype human habitats to Mars (or anywhere else) that are designed for eventual human use but initially tended by humanoid robots. For example, the robot could climb the stairs, go in and out air locks, turn on water systems, open panels and use tools to fix minor problems, etc.<br /><br />If after 1 year of active service the prototype habitat seems to work well in the target environment, a second one could be sent along with a human crew, and the first one could be used as an emergency backup.<br /><br />Mind you, the artificial intelligence and robotic performance in not up to snuff yet, but in 10-15 years (about the timeline NASA will seriously be thinking about sending humans to Mars), they may be ready.</i>
 
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mako71

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />RadarRedux: I am not sure how the two together are an enabling technology for human space explorations.<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />I'm not sure about humanoid robots and their advantages (other than listed by you), but at least at LEO remotely operated vehicles could be good canditates for many things. Because of being remotely operated, they doesn't need much intelligence.<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><br />RadarRedux: Mind you, the artificial intelligence and robotic performance in not up to snuff yet, but in 10-15 years (about the timeline NASA will seriously be thinking about sending humans to Mars), they may be ready.<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />This is what I've been thinking of - when the time passes, there may not anymore be a need for manned space vehicles...? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>________________ </p><p>reaaliaika.net </p> </div>
 
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corbarrad

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There seems to be some confusion as to the definition of "robot" in this thread.<br /><br />What the original poster described was, as i see it, basically a remote-controlled manipulator, shaped like a human to help with intuitive operation. This might work fine over relatively short distances, where radio contact and short response times are guaranteed. Use of this direct control method in outer space would be severely hampered by the fact that currently there are white spots to high data rate access even as close as low earth orbit. Also, even slight lag on the sensory input will cause motion sickness or at least make operation very tiring.<br /><br />Later on Autonomous humanoid robots are mentioned. These are still very much in development and while functions like walking autonomously are coming along quite well, even things like identifying and picking up objects are out of reach (pun intended). Let's not even talk about autonomous decision making.<br /><br />The last type of robot mentioned, "remote-control unmanned construction machines" are not much different from the rovers we have today. They are limited to the purpose that they are designed for and have little or no way of reacting to unexpected situations, even under remote control. The Bulldozer in the disaster area, for example will have no way administering CPR of even dragging a victim to safety.<br /><br />Robots still have a long way to go before even aproximating the flexibility of the human mind and body.<br />That said, there are areas where a robot is the thing to use. <br />Future development will expand those areas and research should be made to perfect remote controlled as well as autonomous robots, but wherever exploration needs to be more than pure research I don't think humans will be replaced any time soon.
 
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