If Apollo 13's O2 can was on Apollo 8?

[brellis]

I was watching NASA-TV last night. Jim Lovell, who had flown on both Apollo 8 and 13, said in a speech commemorating some anniversary that if the accident on 13 had happened on 8, they would have been doomed to orbit the moon in eternity.<br /><br />In my mind's eye, when people I "know" perish they burn themselves into my memory, usually in the last place they were known to be alive. The Columbia crew is enshrined in my mind at the moment they perished in the skies over us. What a striking thought to imagine the crew of Apollo 8, orbiting in perpetuity, in the actual place they would be occupying in my imagination. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

There have been some intresting discussions about whether the accident, if it had occured on another flight, like 8, or had even happened on 13, but at a different time - whether this would have shut the program down entirely as well...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

FWIW, long term stable low orbits around the moon don't seem to be possible.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

One of the ascent modules was in orbit for a while as I recall, but they do decay much more rapidly than one would expect...<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

Depending on exactly when the accident happened, and the dynamics - it is possible that the craft may have ended up in some form of weird Earth, or even heliocentric orbit - that could have left them out there for a long time.<br /><br />Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

The Apollo field and particle sub satellites got zorched pretty quick too.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[brellis]

If it had happened on 8, and they were able to stabilize the craft hours before they ran out of air, would there have been a contingency plan to get into an orbit with a long shelf life, even though they were sure to die? <br /><br />Considering the effort put out to recover pieces of Challenger and Columbia, wouldn't an even greater effort have been made to rendez-vous with an intact orbiting Apollo craft?<br /><br />I'd wonder about getting into a spot with a nice view for my remaining hours of life. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

No, because they couldn't fire the SPS. And also wouldn't have been able to stabilize the craft and they would have run out of air in a few hours after incident . It wouldn't have been retrievalable

 

[qso1]

The average turnaround time for the Saturn-V was two months. That is, after one is launched, the next one is launched around two, three months later. That period of time would have been way beyond the life support capacity of the CSM. Even if they could have prepared the Apollo 14 mission as a rescue mission it probably would still have taken at least a month to get the launch vehicle and spacecraft ready to launch.<br /><br />The Tom Hanks HBO special "From The Earth To The Moon" addressed the question through Lovells wife talking with the flight director or someone. In the conversation she mentioned that if those three guys died in lunar orbit, the moon would be looked upon forever as a place where three astronauts died and are still in lunar orbit. Or something to that effect. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

I was wondering if, considering the effort put into finding every shred of the exploded shuttles, even more effort would have been put into lasso-ing an intact Apollo craft containing three intact dead astronauts, should that have been the case. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[willpittenger]

Whoever you heard made a big goof. Just to be clear, Apollo 13's accident did not happen in Lunar orbit. If it had, they would have been forced to attempt to use the SM engine to get home. I doubt Aquarius had enough thrust to perform TEO successfully. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Will Pittenger<hr style="margin-top:0.5em;margin-bottom:0.5em" />Add this user box to your Wikipedia User Page to show your support for the SDC forums: <div style="margin-left:1em">{{User:Will Pittenger/User Boxes/Space.com Account}}</div> </div>

 

[qso1]

I guess if that had have happened, there probably would have been some kind of effort to recover the bodies, if for no other reason than that history would have certainly gone down an alternate path. Assuming the Apollo program would have even continued considering that an accident on Apollo 8 would have been a major blow coming so short a time after recovery from Apollo 1. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

That must have been my referrence to the Tom Hanks HBO special in which Jim Lovells wife expressed concern about what would happen if Apollo 8 marooned its crew in lunar orbit. For both 8 and 13, return to Earth would not have been possible. On 13, the SPS might have fired and blown the whole CSM/LM or not fired at all.<br /><br />But you are correct, 13 happened enroute to lunar orbit and the SPS never had to be fired. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[brellis]

I'll keep an eye out for a replay of Lovell's comments on NASA-TV, which is now pretty much the only station I watch anymore <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /><br /><br />I can't find the exact quote on google-search. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[qso1]

The comments were Bormans wife. I screwed up when I mentioned Lovells wife. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[cuddlyrocket]

The accident happened on the way to the Moon, so they wouldn't have entered into lunar orbit, but would have gone round the Moon on a free return trajectory that, I understand, was specifically designed so that they'd re-enter Earth's atmosphere.

 

[jimfromnsf]

There wouldn't have been any power to fire it for an Apollo 8 scenario anyways, once the O2 was gone.

 

[brellis]

Thanks for the illuminating comments.<br /><br />It replayed at some unworldly hour of this AM on NASA-TV. Lovell's comment was not referring to any specific orbit or trajectory. He just waved his hand in a circle and said if it had happened on Apollo 8 they'd be "an orbiting shrine, flying out there forever". I took it to mean they could have gotten to a stable trajectory that would leave the craft intact.<br /><br />One reason I like watching NASA-TV is they didn't break for 24/7 endlessly-speculative coverage of the unfortunate incident at JSC, and that happened at a NASA facility! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[bushuser]

It's an unsettling reality of space flight that some poor astronauts will eventually find themselves in perpetual orbit, beyond rescue, whether it's the moon, Mars, or elsewhere.<br /><br />It should be noted that the Apollo 13 accident was unique. No other Apollo flew a damaged dropped oxygen tank, subjected to heat stress which it was never designed to take.