I'm an astronomer and I think aliens may be out there — but UFO sightings aren't persuasive

[Tom Gootee]

Concerning comments in post #23, perhaps space.com can publish an *official* article here on the topic. Dust clouds in space face a very harsh environment like photoevaporation and dissipation, example activity in M42 in Orion or other areas observed in the interstellar medium. What would be the expected lifetime for *space art* to survive where earthlings would see and understand the message?, What is the min distance from earth? What is the max image distance?, etc. Specific sky positions are needed (celestial coordinate system) and follow up observations using different equipment and perhaps different wavelengths of light too. How long have these space art images been documented?

I too wondered how their image quality might be expected to vary with time. I used images from Hubble, Herschel, and Planck, if I recall correctly. I believe that they included visible, infrared, ultraviolet, and radio wavelengths.

Some areas, where much star formation occurs, experience dust motion and pillar formation due to light pressure from new stars. And some areas were said to have what amount to very high velocity winds (from what, exactly, I forget). Some areas where face artworks were seen were in still-expanding supernova remnants, such as the Crab Nebula. I am sure that there are many other time-varying phenomena involved.

A few of the nebula images I studied were from less than 1000 light years from earth. Many are from 5000 to 25,000 light years away. There are also quite a few that are from about 170,000 light years away (in the Magellanic Clouds). Some are from Planck whole-sky images and could be over a very wide range of distances. But one chapter's images are all from the core of the galaxy M42, which is 12 million light years from here. Other recognizable face artworks have been seen at much greater distances.

Respectfully,

Tom Gootee

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Well, we have 21 post here already. I like to use these exoplanet sites to review thinking about space aliens and spaceships traveling around communicating with earthlings. http://exoplanet.eu/, and , https://exoplanetarchive.ipac.caltech.edu/index.html

The .eu site shows 4395 exoplanets confirmed and max distance is 35882 light-years from earth (for the most distant confirmed exoplanet). Using 10,000 pc radius from earth, the cubic volume of space as measured around earth in a sphere is 4.19E+12 cubic parsecs. Allowing each cubic parsec to have one exoplanet in the host star's HZ (habitable zone, I am being very generous here), we have potentially more than 4 trillion habitable worlds in that volume of space, far more than the 4395 confirmed exoplanets and most of these are not in their parent star's HZ. Using 4 trillion habitable worlds in 4.19E+12 cubic parsecs around earth, how many will have space aliens traveling around and communicating now? To start the answer, Earth is one, at least within our solar system and to the Moon

Odds get thin if we need Earth/moon setup with just the right star at just the right distance.
The 80% of the stars in the galaxy in the central bulge (super nova country) bad place for any life.
90% of what remains are to old/to young or wrong star type.

Next door tech society might be galaxies away or not even exist.

 

[rod]

Tom Gootee, thanks for a bit more info in your post #26. I was wondering about the Crab Nebula or M1. You said "...Some areas where face artworks were seen were in still-expanding supernova remnants, such as the Crab Nebula. I am sure that there are many other time-varying phenomena involved."

MS WWT has a number of images of M1 in different wavelengths to view, also various Internet sources. I view M1 periodically with my 10-inch Newtonian but mostly as an amorphous or somewhat large elliptical gray shape in the eyepiece. Nothing like HST imaging

Your project raises for me the six basic investigative reporting questions that I think the Forums should follow. Who, What, Where, When, How, and Why? Focusing on M1 and working these six questions would likely lead to some interesting views on an object like M1 and face art created in the expanding supernova remnant or SNR that is M1 and the pulsar seen near the center---Rod

 

[Meistro]

The bit of UFO sighting info that did it for me was when I heard about someone figured out that many were displaying constellation patterns in their flight patterns. After my own investigating on many photos etc.. Yeah, wow. Even sightings years apart show similarities. How many times years apart are they going to flash the Orion constellation at us?

 

[Tom Gootee]

Odds get thin if we need Earth/moon setup with just the right star at just the right distance.
The 80% of the stars in the galaxy in the central bulge (super nova country) bad place for any life.
90% of what remains are to old/to young or wrong star type.

Next door tech society might be galaxies away or not even exist.

If you haven't read post #7, yet, please do.

It seems like there have been a lot of pessimistic estimates that have been offered, by many who have considered the Fermi Paradox. I now think that their pessimism might have stemmed from the fact that they knew of no evidence of ETs, therefore they believed there was none, therefore they believed that intelligent life must be exquisitely scarce. According to me at least, wow were they wrong!

After people become familiar with the appearance of the extraterrestrials' larger types of face artworks, they will realize that most of the images of the Milky Way that have been taken from the ground with only a camera (which are almost all actually just images of the next spiral arm over, from ours), are LOADED with ET-made faces that are looking across the gap at us.

So they are not galaxies away. It looks like there are at least thousands of ET populations, just in our own galaxy. But I guess that estimate depends on how prolific they are, in making artworks. Maybe there could be anywhere from hundreds to millions of populations of them.

P.S. If you google "Milky Way" and then select Images, the thumbnail images that are displayed might be the most useful to look at, at first. The face artworks are usually much more-difficult to perceive when they are too large.

Cheers,

Tom Gootee

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

If you haven't read post #7, yet, please do.

It seems like there have been a lot of pessimistic estimates that have been offered, by many who have considered the Fermi Paradox. I now think that their pessimism might have stemmed from the fact that they knew of no evidence of ETs, therefore they believed there was none, therefore they believed that intelligent life must be exquisitely scarce. According to me at least, wow were they wrong!

After people become familiar with the appearance of the extraterrestrials' larger types of face artworks, they will realize that most of the images of the Milky Way that have been taken from the ground with only a camera (which are almost all actually just images of the next spiral arm over, from ours), are LOADED with ET-made faces that are looking across the gap at us.

So they are not galaxies away. It looks like there are at least thousands of ET populations, just in our own galaxy. But I guess that estimate depends on how prolific they are, in making artworks. Maybe there could be anywhere from hundreds to millions of populations of them.

P.S. If you google "Milky Way" and then select Images, the thumbnail images that are displayed might be the most useful to look at, at first. The face artworks are usually much more-difficult to perceive when they are too large.

Cheers,

Tom Gootee

Big trouble with earthlike planets even with a moon to make them a viable place.
Without life early after they form they all head towards Venus or Mars.
Probably lots of Earth size Venus and Mars planets.

Needing and Earth/Moon setup with life right away before the atmosphere gets to thick or thin.
With just the right star at just the right distance in a safe part of the galaxy.
Not good odds.
Then we need the planets metal content to be correct, silicon amounts correct, plate tectonics correct, volcano activity correct, Gas content correct, water and land mix correct ETC ETC

Life maybe lots of worlds with very basic life, but ET IMO few and far between.
Home alone odds

 

[Tom Gootee]

Big trouble with earthlike planets even with a moon to make them a viable place.
Without life early after they form they all head towards Venus or Mars.
Probably lots of Earth size Venus and Mars planets.

Needing and Earth/Moon setup with life right away before the atmosphere gets to thick or thin.
With just the right star at just the right distance in a safe part of the galaxy.
Not good odds.
Then we need the planets metal content to be correct, silicon amounts correct, plate tectonics correct, volcano activity correct, Gas content correct, water and land mix correct ETC ETC

Life maybe lots of worlds with very basic life, but ET IMO few and far between.
Home alone odds

But they are now SEEN to be NOT few and far between. See post #7.

 

[COLGeek]

Seeing something that looks vaguely like a face, from a certain angle, in space is arguably no different than seeing in a bowl of cereal, the clouds, or on a potato chip.

To be art, there must be intent. Claims to solving the Fermi Paradox based on the images presented (as noted earlier) don't make it so.

Happy New Year, everyone!

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

But they are now SEEN to be NOT few and far between. See post #7.

I'm not saying aliens exist and I'm not saying they don't.
Just pointing out the fact that in reality not that many places exist for them to be existing in the first place.

Lots of earthlike worlds in the galaxy but vanishingly small numbers that make it through the giant billion dice Yahtzee roll that we did.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Seeing something that looks vaguely like a face, from a certain angle, in space is arguably no different than seeing in a bowl of cereal, the clouds, or on a potato chip.

To be art, there must be intent. Claims to solving the Fermi Paradox based on the images presented (as noted earlier) don't make it so.

Happy New Year, everyone!

I've seen a few oddities in the sky myself but i couldn't say they were alien star ships, they never stopped in to shake my hand.
IMO military has a perfect cover if something looks like an alien craft so lots will be just that.
I agree seeing patterns in the galaxy that look like something else is human nature.
We are after all pattern recognition machines, look at clouds and we instantly think about what they look like.

 

[Catastrophe]

Well travel in space yep C speed is max (even for Kirk)
If Void space isn't something that can be altered or enlarged.

Communications another story.
(Spooky action at a distance) particle instant flip is being well studied at Nasa as an instant communication device.
All comes down to having fine detectors that can notice a particle flip and assign a 1 or 0 to it flipping.

Instant speed communication IMO not that far away.
We don't need 100% accuracy on the detectors, probably 60-70 % detection would work just fine with error correction.

Thank you for your interesting reply. It may be that some such occurrences may be limited to very small particles. Whilst such may occur with sub atomics I think it unlikely that they can be made to operate on a macro scale. Still, 'never say never'! Cat

 

[Tom Gootee]

Seeing something that looks vaguely like a face, from a certain angle, in space is arguably no different than seeing in a bowl of cereal, the clouds, or on a potato chip.

To be art, there must be intent. Claims to solving the Fermi Paradox based on the images presented (as noted earlier) don't make it so.

Happy New Year, everyone!

Wow. You seem too casual about insulting a large body of work with which you are not familiar.

If you are serious, then you CANNOT have competently examined the two Example Images, i.e. Section 1.3 and Section 1.4, on page 4 and page 7, in the "Look inside" link for the book!

I'll give you one last chance to save your perception's reputation: (If others are reading this, please try this and also post your opinion or assessment.)

(First, go to amazon dot com or google and do a search for "gootee et faces" and go to the book's page on Amazon. Then click on the "Look inside" link above the book's cover image.)

In section 1.3, "Example Image 1", there is a large head of what looks like a white, male human with black hair. It's a fairly obvious one, as their faces go. But there is also another similar but smaller face that protrudes, somewhat awkwardly, from the upper, right side (his left side) of the first one's head! With TWO faces combined like that, it's freaking unmistakably intelligent in its design! The two faces share a common eye, between them. Please examine that image, until you see BOTH of those faces.

In section 1.4, "Example Image 2", were you SERIOUSLY not able to see BOTH the man and the woman, where the man's mouth also serves as the woman's eyes?! That is one of the most amazing pieces of ET art that I have seen. Because the two faces are combined, and the man's mouth is also the woman's eyes, there is NO WAY that it was created by nature, without intelligent beings. (The SECOND image in that section is the one that shows them together, the best. They are shown separately, more or less, in the third and fourth images.)

Note that you WILL have to spend more than a few seconds looking at these images. If you are going to try to demand a Rembrandt's clarity, or you are unwilling to spend at least two minutes per image, then don't bother.

Cheers,

Tom Gootee

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Thank you for your interesting reply. It may be that some such occurrences may be limited to very small particles. Whilst such may occur with sub atomics I think it unlikely that they can be made to operate on a macro scale. Still, 'never say never'! Cat

Most welcome
They are getting pretty close to working models of SPAD communication.
Computers sure to follow that run at instant speed, put in a massive calculation press enter and it's done instantly.

Interesting to think of that future of instant speed things.
Interesting to think that SPAD itself isn't really understood.

I have a feeling SPAD is simply an entry point in quanta between orbits of electrons that time and space don't really exist but the space or lack of space does.
Gravity traveling in that same entry point for instant communication and C speed waves in normal space.

Maybe some day down the road someone will be able to expand that lack of space in quanta and be able to go instantly anywhere in no time.
Bet that would make KIRK happy

 

[Imaginethat]

I'm not saying aliens exist and I'm not saying they don't.
Just pointing out the fact that in reality not that many places exist for them to be existing in the first place.

Lots of earthlike worlds in the galaxy but vanishingly small numbers that make it through the giant billion dice Yahtzee roll that we did.

Or, maybe, no other intelligent life exists in this universe.

Maybe, universes of universes exist.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Or, maybe, no other intelligent life exists in this universe.

Maybe, universes of universes exist.

I think the concept of the universe is wrong.
BB=universe i think is incorrect.
Universe=Quantum fluctuation forever with infinite big bangs inside it.
answers lots of those how does it all start questions and how a big bang can happen having an infinite quantum fluctuation universe that simply stared because void space had potential energy and quantum fluctuation energy balance did the rest.

If so infinite numbers of intelligent civilizations will exist.
How close is the nearest one?
In our galaxy?
In a regional galaxy?
1/2 way across the BB universe?
Many BB universes away?

 

[Catastrophe]

Of course we cannot know at the moment, but with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, each with planets, and with billions of "years" to exist in, my opinion (and it is only my opinion) is that there must have been / are / will be at least millions of "advanced" civilisations.

Cat

 

[vincenzosassone]

I think the concept of the universe is wrong.
BB=universe i think is incorrect.

I'm sorry, but if you mean Multiverse with the word Universe there will be a misunderstanding. I know that names aren't important but if we have to communicate we have to be clear. Anyways, passing to worth issues, if this were correct:

Many BB universes away?

We would have many problem to talk to them...
I don't know very well the structure of our Universe, I'm not a professionist, and not even the structure of Multiverse, but if I know something that concern this topic, is that we cannot travel outside our Universe to reach it. I also know that these Universes have different physical laws, something that we cannot even imagine. About general living beings, we share the same idea.
Maybe I added something that you have already known, watching your level, but I tried to be useful.

 

[vincenzosassone]

be able to go instantly anywhere in no time.

As far as I'm concerned, there is only an object that can travel with an infinite speed, the tachions. There is only one problem, they have literally the complex mass.
For this reasons they are pretty theorical.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

I'm sorry, but if you mean Multiverse with the word Universe there will be a misunderstanding. I know that names aren't important but if we have to communicate we have to be clear. Anyways, passing to worth issues, if this were correct:

We would have many problem to talk to them...
I don't know very well the structure of our Universe, I'm not a professionist, and not even the structure of Multiverse, but if I know something that concern this topic, is that we cannot travel outside our Universe to reach it. I also know that these Universes have different physical laws, something that we cannot even imagine. About general living beings, we share the same idea.
Maybe I added something that you have already known, watching your level, but I tried to be useful.

Not so much a multiverse more a single endless fluctuation universe with BB,s here and there.
If we could travel between quanta you could travel to any universe at instant speed.
It gives us a pretty good reason for everything having fluctuation as the builder of everything but not the reason for everything.

I always wondered what happens if you travel at instant speed in an infinite universe?
Best not to think about that problem

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

T

As far as I'm concerned, there is only an object that can travel with an infinite speed, the tachions. There is only one problem, they have literally the complex mass.
For this reasons they are pretty theorical.

Tachions, probably in the same entry point as gravity but with occasional wave interference .
They run into fluctuations quanta orbit but only once in a while that slows them to less that infinite speed but they never have enough interaction to make them C speed.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

Of course we cannot know at the moment, but with billions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, each with planets, and with billions of "years" to exist in, my opinion (and it is only my opinion) is that there must have been / are / will be at least millions of "advanced" civilisations.

Cat

I totally agree that in this vast BB universe other civilizations probably exist or did exist.
Do they last long enough to ever meet another, are they close enough to ever meet another.
If we don't have another civilization in our galaxy would we ever meet one no matter how long a tech society lasts?

They could exist but if they aren't in our galaxy we might never find out.
Even in our galaxy and it could be a very long search.

 

[Catastrophe]

"Do they last long enough to ever meet another, are they close enough to ever meet another. "

Spot on!

With Coronavirus, how long would you rate ours? 50,000 years? 10 years? Depends where you draw the line.

 

[voidpotentialenergy]

"Do they last long enough to ever meet another, are they close enough to ever meet another. "

Spot on!

With Coronavirus, how long would you rate ours? 50,000 years? 10 years? Depends where you draw the line.

IMO coronavirus is a sign from nature that to many people exist on the planet.
More are sure to follow if we don't get serious about population.

Ignorance, arrogance and drum rattling are sure to be bad days for humanity on our current path of pollution, population and resource depletion at faster and faster pace.

I don't think we have long before we are sharping sticks again after ww3 or we are totally gone.

100 years maybe.

 

[vincenzosassone]

Tachions, probably in the same entry point as gravity but with occasional wave interference .
They run into fluctuations quanta orbit but only once in a while that slows them to less that infinite speed but they never have enough interaction to make them C speed.

Ehm, Tachions and their relative stuff aren't well known by me, they are very weird and difficult to understand because of their complex mass. So, I'm not an expert in this field and I'm aware of them only theorically, but if there is something that I know about them is that on them Energy have a different effects... while I'm already talking about them, I think that is important getting deeper. Firstly, I want to say again that I know them only theorically, secondly, I remember that the more Energy they have the slower they travel. Thus I say that if Energy is 0 they travel with an infinity amout of speed, whereas if they have an infinity amout of Energy, they travel at the speed of light, or better, c. This is what I know about them, and as you can imagine, it isn't much. For this reason you can be right, but I actually remember this...

IMO coronavirus is a sign from nature that to many people exist on the planet.

This is what I always say!

 

[Meistro]

IMO coronavirus is a sign from nature that to many people exist on the planet.

...And if that doesn't work fast enough there's always a polar vortex available to help thin the herd.