in space there is no up or down?

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ebort

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mind staggering ignorance alert...many apps <br /><br />the planets orbit the sun in our solar system in a fairly flattened plane . there are no planets AFAIK? that orbit around the north south pole of the sun..all orbit around the equator ..excuse my basic education on this ..<br /><br />this is down to gravitational fields? <br /><br />is there any pattern to this with other solar systems or are they all at random angles coherent only with their suns angle?
 
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aidan13791

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This is an effect of the accretion disc at the birth of the solar system. Also, bear in mind that the Oort cloud is spherical e.g. is up and down.
 
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MeteorWayne

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The process of contraction pruduces a spinning flattend disk, it is from the disk that the sun and planets form.<br />That process is universal during star forming, and is a result of interplay between angular momentum and gravity.<br />Other stars and planetary sytems will also form from such disks, but the alignment relative to ours appears to be random, as far as we know so far. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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nexium

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Now that Pluto has been demoted: Mercury's orbit has the maximum tilt (9 degrees) with respect to Earth's orbital plane. A very few small asteroids and more comets have orbital tilts of about 90 degrees with respect to the plane of Earth's orbit. Results are only slightly different, if you compare to Jupiter's orbit or the Equator of the Sun.<br />Our guess is other solar systems are mostly similar, but we await more extra solar planet data before we can be sure.<br />In space we would define down as about the direction of the strongest gravity source, but the gravity is not as noticeable since everything (very low mass is an exception) not being powered is in approximately free fall.<br />It is thought that stuff orbited in close to random planes in the very early cloud from which our solar system evolved, but the stuff at odd angles suffered more collisions which tended to circularize the orbits and get them mostly in the same plane. Perhaps someone can explain the effects of near misses.<br />Galaxies are at radom angles to each other. Likely solar systems have a slight tendency to allign with the plane of their galaxy, but are mostly random. Neil
 
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ebort

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many thanks guys...plenty for me to read up on and think about there...
 
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MeteorWayne

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Glad we could help.<br />Welcome to SDC by the way <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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vandivx

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" in space there is no up or down?"<br /><br />if you talk about space as such, there is no intrinsic direction in regard to it whatsoever, at least going by today's best knowledge around<br /><br />however I can conceive of the Aristotelian 'center of universe to which everything tends' and that could be taken as meaning that the 'down' is towards that center of the universe and 'up' is towards the universe's outer periphery<br /><br />there is no support for such idea in today's physics whatsoever since it would fly in the face of the whole post Newtonian physics - it would imply absolute space and absolute motion and even if it could be argued for, the science community is not ready for it and might not be for some centuries yet, for the forseeable time Einstein and his relativity will most likely prevail<br /><br />also, even if that was the case and there was up and down in universe, the galaxies and star systems would still align their discs in random direction, I suppose that is given by random collapse of the matter clouds during which the angular momentum develops in random direction depending on the particular details of each cloud innitial matter distribution the collapse of which gives rise to the angular momentum developing in the first place and also its direction<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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CalliArcale

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Since it helps to have a consistent frame of reference, diagrams are usually depicted with "north" being "up" (just like maps). When speaking of the solar system, north is the region "above" the plane of the ecliptic (Earth orbits on the plane of the ecliptic), because that's where Earth's north pole is. (There is a longer and more tedious explanation of this, but that should do for our purposes right now.) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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robnissen

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"Likely solar systems have a slight tendency to allign with the plane of their galaxy, but are mostly random." <br /><br />Interesting point. Does anyone know the variance between the plane of the solar system, and the plane of the galaxy?
 
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MeteorWayne

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The North Galactic Pole is in Corona Borealis, the pole of the plane of the solar system (not sure what the proper name is) is in Draco.<br />They are about 45 degrees apart, so our solar system is inclined about 45 degrees to the galactic plane.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>
 
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Saiph

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Nexium's got the gist of it.<br /><br />Due to conservation of angular momentum solar systems within a spinning galaxy are going to tend to align themselves with the spin axis of the galaxy. I.e. there is a tendancy for the systems to rotate the same way, and be aligned similarly.<br /><br />This doesn't mean they're in perfect alignment (as mentioned, our system is at a 45 degree incline) or that they all point in the same general direction. Some will rotate "backwards" or at a severe 90 angle. But there should be an "overall" tendancy towards alignment.<br /><br />The mechanism is much the same as the one that causes our planets to behave in such a way (all but venus spin the same way). However, on a galactic scale it isn't as strong of a selection effect, and so the overall trend is far more random than in our solar system.<br /><br />Galaxies, as nexium pointed out, show no net alignment when sampled over the entire sky. This indicates that there is likely no "net" spin to the universe. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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Kalstang

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<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>(all but venus spin the same way)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />There is one other planet that doesnt spin like the rest do. Uranus. It's poles actually go "east/west" in respect to ours. So that means its spinning in a "north/south" direction. Basically its on its side <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. At least this is what I was told in school. (which was a long time ago). I am also hopeing that my memory hasnt failed me on this point. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>
 
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search

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Since your question is about inclination and not "spin" (rotation) or another orbit parameter:<br /><br />"The orbital plane of an object orbiting another is the geometrical plane in which the orbit is embedded. Three points are required to find the orbital plane: the center of the heavier object, the center of the orbiting object and the center of the orbiting object at some later time.<br /><br />By definition the inclination of a planet in the solar system is the angle between its orbital plane and that of the Earth. In other cases, for instance a moon orbiting another planet, it is convenient to define the inclination of the moon's orbit as the angle between its orbital plane and the planet's equator."<br /><br />Check orbit parameters:<br /><br />Check major solar bodies parameters:<br /><br />Inclination of major bodies in solar system (check Eris 44.187 and Mercury the highest inclination for a planet)<br /><br />Inclination deg. <br />Mercury 7.00487 <br />Venus 3.39471 <br />Earth 0.00005 <br />Mars 1.85061 <br />Ceres 10.587 <br />Jupiter 1.30530 <br />Saturn 2.48446 <br />Uranus 0.76986 <br />Neptune 1.76917 <br />Pluto 17.14175 <br />Eris 44.187
 
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Saiph

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how could I forget about Uranus? Geesh, I feel rather silly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector.  Goes "bing" when there's stuff.  It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually.  I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>
 
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ebort

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ok thanks again!<br />i've been slowly following the links kindly given (thanks for the time and effort) ..<br /><br />am i right in assuming it is no coincidence that the sun's<br />Heliospheric current shape is similar to the spiral shape adopted by the galaxy.. i suppose what i'm thinking is that the sun gives the solar system it's shape and even magnetic/gravitational polarity <br />and that each solar system is a kind of semi self contained unit, with the sun as it's principle source of physical laws <br /><br />it all seems to behave like small particles suspended in a liquid??
 
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search

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I am not sure what you are asking but I wil try:<br />Heliospheric current shape you mean Heliospheric Current Sheet?<br /><br />The environment in which the solar system resides is called the interplanetary medium. The Sun radiates a continuous stream of charged particles, a plasma known as solar wind, which forms a very tenuous "atmosphere" (the heliosphere), permeating the interplanetary medium in all directions for at least ten billion (10×109) miles (16 Tm or 16×109 km) into space. Small quantities of dust are also present in the interplanetary medium and are responsible for the phenomenon of zodiacal light. Some of the dust is likely interstellar dust from outside the solar system. The influence of the Sun's rotating magnetic field on the interplanetary medium creates the largest structure in the Solar System, the heliospheric current sheet or HCS.<br /><br />The shape of the HCS depends on the solar wind and the travel of the sun through the interplanetary medium.
 
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ebort

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cheers..just curious i guess...the heliospeheric current shape (the ballerinas skirt effect) has a strong spiral element to it as does the galaxy..chicken and egg?<br /><br />thanks for the help.. i don't have any scientific back ground so i'm so far out of my depth that i need a snorkel the size of a space elevator!! <br /><br />just trying to learn
 
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search

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No one knows it all<br /><br />If what you are asking is what came first, the stars or the galaxies?<br /><br />My answer would be very highly, most probably the stars (but our sun most definetly after our galaxy). Confusing?<br /><br />Population I, II and III stars being the population III stars the oldest stars which gave birth to the protogalaxies, the population II stars or metal-poor stars (daughters of the PIII stars) very faint but already present in our galaxy and the population I stars like our sun and all the stars you can observe at naked eye plus almost all stars that strongest telescopes can detect.<br /><br />Read this link from another thread:<br />http://uplink.space.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=sciastro&Number=606995&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Words=SEARCH&Match=Username&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=allposts&Main=586211<br /><br />If the question is which came first, the sun HCS spiral effect or the Milky Way spiral effect?<br />I would say most probably the Milky Way spiral effect for the reason I stated above. Our sun was born already in our galaxy.
 
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