Is ISS safe from land/air based attacks?

[londo_mollari]

Just following, with excitement, whole ISS and human space exploration in general. But was wondering, are international space community and NASA taking pre-cautions against land/air fired missiles?<br />I believe it is still not possible for terrorist organizations to fire such missiles at the stations, but are we taking necessary pre-cautions?<br /><br />

 

[gawin]

From what ive read the only 2 countries that ever developed ASAT's was the US and the USSR and they are the 2 major partners in the ISS. So i dont think they would spend billions of dollars on the ISS just to blow it up. Im not shure but i wouldnt think it has any defence capabilities. but on another note if it did I dought that they would tell anyone <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />here is a link to an artical on ASAT's that discribes just how much time and effort has been put into developing them.<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-satellite_missile<br /><br /> *edit* the ASAT program was also one of the factors in the shuttles capabilities being able to capture and bring back to eath large payloads

 

[londo_mollari]

I guess ISS is safe for now. Still measures need to be taken, the way technological development is accelerating and becoming cheaper, things could change within a decade.

 

[PistolPete]

IIRC both nation's ASAT programs were eventually cancled before being fielded. The only thing I can think of that could seriously harm the ISS without any real development and would be within the capabilities of a hostile nation such as North Korea or Iran would be to detonate a nuclear bomb in space as the ISS passes overhead, creating an EMP effect. This would fry all of the ISS's electrical equpment, effectively killing the ISS and ultimatly the crew once the CO2 level got too high. This would also fry all of the power grids within a thousand mile radius of the blast, which should be no problem for NK which is too poor to afford a power grid. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

If they were going to take out the ISS with an EMP, (for god knows what reason) they'd almost certainly do it over Japan. Two birds, one stone.

 

[syndroma]

Recently the USSR ASAT program was revived as the Ishim project, jointly funded by Kazakhstan and Russia. Should be impressive - air-launched by MiG-31D multistage solid-fueled rocket.

 

[mattblack]

Yes, it is, you 'Moon-faced assassin of joy'! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>

 

[erioladastra]

"I guess ISS is safe for now. "<br /><br />What makes you think an ASAT is the ONLY viable threat?

 

[PistolPete]

Turning swords into plowshares, that might make a good picosat launcher. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

The Soviets had a satellite that could be manuevered near another satellite, and then it would explode, blowing shrapnel all over the target.<br /><br />They also had a small space shuttle looking craft that could be dispatched to shoot up one of our space shuttles. It was test fired and recovered in the Indian Ocean, but was cancelled after the Challenger accident in 1986.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[PistolPete]

I think you are thinking of the BOR-4 and BOR-5. The BOR-4 was designed to test lifting body aerodynamics at re-entry speeds, similar to the USAF X-23 PRIME, not to shoot down the Space shuttle. The BOR-5 was a subscale aerodynamic model of the Buran Space Shuttle.<br /><br />Because the Soviet space program was always a secretive, many people in the west jumped to the conclusion that the BOR-4 and BOR-5 were combat spacecraft. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

What it comes down to is this:<br /><br />Only two entities in the world have done serious work investigating ASAT (Anti-SATellite) systems: the United States and the USSR. Neither found them practical. The resources required to acheive it are considerable, and even if you are willing to expend the resources, there is a fairly good chance of mission failure. (Your ASAT has to rendezvous with the target satellite, and that's not a trivial task even for a well-funded manned mission.)<br /><br />If these two superpowers abandoned it due to the sheer complexity and expense of the project, the odds of a terrorist organization being able to do it are laughable.<br /><br />So how could a terrorist organization attack the ISS? They'd have to attack what they can reach -- the ground facilities. It would be possible to seriously annoy the ISS partner nations by blowing up facilities. It might even be possible to force a premature abandonment of the station, but given that it can be supported entirely with either US or Russian assets, this would require a great deal of coordination, well beyond that witnessed on 9/11/01, to destroy enough ground assets to render the station unsupportable. And frankly, if an enemy has that capability, why waste it on a space station? There are much juicier targets available, like mass transit, military assets that could be used in a retaliatory strike, places with very high concentrations of civilians, and so forth. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[shoogerbrugge]

What Vogon means is the Mig 105 from its 50/50 study. The spacecraft of this system is preserved in momino museum. More info is to be found here. The Bor type spacecraft might look alike, but IIRC they were designed by a competing design bureau, not MiG. <br />Vogon is correct in saying that BOR-5 were recovered in the Indian ocean after launch on a Cosmos3M and a sub-orbital trajectory.<br /><br />The Soviet killer satellite is this system <br /><br />And then there is of course the MiG-31D ASAT aircraft with a two stage vympel missle to shoot down satellites. Don't know if actual tests were performed, but two MiG's were converted for trails.

 

[j05h]

ISS is probably the safest complex anywhere, at least statistically. There are space-based dangers but they seem to pale compared to weather and human dangers on Earth. <br /><br />Could an ASAT work against the ISS? Yes, but the cost and instant retaliation make it highly unlikely.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

The only viable plan I ever read of used a Titan missile to launch 25 tons of ordinary sand to LEO & detonate it. That would spread the sand out into a cloud maybe 50 to 100 miles in diameter. The resulting cloud would eventually knock out every satellite in that orbit, including our own. The Air Force was not too crazy about it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

"<br />And then there is of course the MiG-31D ASAT aircraft with a two stage vympel missle to shoot down satellites. Don't know if actual tests were performed, but two MiG's were converted for trails."<br /><br />They also have a kinetic anti-spacestation system that they've been developing for the last 30 years called 'Progress'.

 

[PistolPete]

<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><em>So, again we are defeated. This victory belongs to the farmers, not us.</em></p><p><strong>-Kambei Shimada from the movie Seven Samurai</strong></p> </div>

 

[shoogerbrugge]

They tested it once, almost with complete succes. The hands on flying did prove a bit tricky though, it seemed hard to determine speed and distance through a black and white televion.

 

[spacefire]

what about ground based lasers? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[skyone]

Or the airborne variety (think the USAF's ABL)

 

[rocketman5000]

Shoogerbrugge: the photo in your link of the energia launcher appears that the rocket is horizontally integrated. Is this true?

 

[shoogerbrugge]

Yeah, Energia is integrated horizontal, just like almost all Soviet/Russian rockets are*. Integration takes place at a railway card (a real big one) and then moved to the launch pad for feulling and last minute preparations. <br /><br />(The German/Russian JV Rockot being the only one that I can think of that is being integrated vertically)

 

[silylene old]

<font color="yellow">what about ground based lasers? </font><br /><br />Saddam's supergun reportedly could've reached shot it down with a projectile. Of course, the projectile had no hope of having any tracking capability. Nor was it tested yet before the 1st Iraq War.<br /><br />Interestingly, Saddam's supergun was in the news a few days ago...here's a story about it rusting in a Bagdad scrapyard: gun <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[spacefire]

he'd just have to make sure that the projectile hit the ISS or detonated next to it. Assuming that the orbit is not classified, it would have been just a matter of aiming at the right spot and firing at the right time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[SpeedFreek]

Maybe the most feasible approach would be to get a bomb on board a supply shuttle. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000">_______________________________________________<br /></font><font size="2"><em>SpeedFreek</em></font> </p> </div>