Is our universe infinite?

[Atlan0001]

To Harry:

We are(!) the center of the Universe (U), as anyone sees when they look out to the far, collapsed, horizons of the universe . . . from anywhere. "We," you, and everywhere and everything else, even every point-particle location down levels of plane of Universe toward the Planck BC | BV | BB center everywhere and when in and of the infinite Universe (U) is the center. Some might say that all being the center, it has no center. It depends upon your point of view (the glass is empty | the glass is full (Schrodinger's 'cat' again)).

 

[Atlan0001]

There is no where we can look to see infinity, even if it's there. Two lines of evidence supports approx. 2 trillion galaxies that are in the observable universe, and this is close to the extreme limits, so some more are likely, but not orders more, no doubt.

I've found that the unobservable isn't worth observing. Infinity, even if it exists, can never take us where it wants us to go.

Unobserved frontiers over, in, through the curtains of the far horizon (infinity's unobservable frontiers) have always taken life where it needed and wanted to go. Infinity is always the next frontier over the horizon and 'Through the Looking Glass'. Even our Moon and our star, where they each are 'now' (t = 0) in space and time, are unobserved and unobservable from Earth (t = 0). They are ahead, out front, of observability from here. Alpha Centauri (t = 0), the reality of it, is farther ahead, farther out front, of observability from the Earth (t = 0). Andromeda (t = 0), the reality of it, on the move, in motion, in change, is ridiculously ahead, out front, of observability from here (t = 0). There are galaxies and much else (t = 0) beyond its distance from here, on the move, in motion, in change, that have been on the move, in motion and in change far longer and more differentially between spaces and times of movement, motion, and change, action far more ridiculously like quantum mechanics, ahead, out front, of observability from here than even Andromeda. They themselves have broken out into relative infinities of unobservable universes (t = 0) of their own, like our own unobservable Moon (t = 0), our own unobservable star (t = 0), from here (t = 0). (t0 = t0 = t0 = t0 = t0 = t=0....)

A quantum mechanical-like existence to the macrocosm beyond relativity is worth observing in the mind's eye (observation via the "mind's eye" as Albert Einstein put it). There is a great promise to those unobservable universe frontiers beyond the relativistic observable. Sitting and observing from Earth alone is suicidal in my opinion. And every step out to the next frontier beyond the mudhole of Earth here alone is a step out into the Mirror ('The Looking Glass') of infinity.

 

[Atlan0001]

The observable -- absolutely relativistic -- universe in the light, the relativistic universe at the speed of light, the straight-line of space, straight arrow of time, universe, doesn't tell us a thing about how and what, where and when, the universe really is. Not one thing about how fast it truly is, meaning probably is. The speed of light actually slows everything down, has slowed and slows everything down observably, in the light. The more distant anything is, including the entirety of the universe, the less real it becomes. The less movement. The less motion. The less change. The greater the difference between what we observe as being the universe and the reality of the universe. The universe is made far less dimensional, far less faceted, than it truly is.

Light and the speed of light can't even give us the reality of quantum mechanics, the current reality of quantum mechanics. It can't even keep up with the multi-faceted, multi-dimensional, breadth and depth of the reality of the microcosm, much less keeping up with the multi-faceted, multi-dimensional breadth and depth of the reality of the macrocosm. Regardless of what it appears to be, it is far too slow, far too slowing (far too much of a past history badly written at that), far too reductionist to deal in the realty of either the microcosm or the macrocosm. We won't learn the reality until we are out there in the midst of reality. Then -- as I see it to be -- we will begin to learn the reality of both the microcosm and the macrocosm at the same time. An ever more united reality of the two by being inside the unity of both, as one, in transit of the universe's pathways.
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The very idea of those UFOs still talked about existing, if they exist, bothers me. They come from where (unseen, unidentified)? They go to where (unseen, unidentified)? Through what path, where (unseen, unidentified)? If they exist, the Earth is apparently an unintended, unmeant, accident (possibly an accident of navigation) along their highway of transit through the universe. If and when we get out there, we will find things out about a universe we cannot know or learn anything about from in here.
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It's a Multiverse Universe.

 

[Harry Costas]

Where do you want to go?
What do you want to know?

Mod Edit - Please do not use all caps!

 

[IG2007]

A lot of relative and myopically closed systemic viewpoint, but no evidence of the opposite to the closed systemic! No evidence that infinity does not exist. No evidence that there is no such thing as an inside-out opposed outside-in to the Universe. Your proofs regarding infinity, gravity, and inertialessness, are 1-dimensionally viewed, closed systemic, proofs and thus -- as I see them -- meaningless proofs.

My views concerning the constancy of the speed of light being a closed systemic constancy, have been stated and described many, many, times. The constant of the speed of light would still be observed to be the local constant of the speed of light even in a foreground relative environment where the background environment is a hyper spatial-time ("many worlds"-like) environment. Quoting evidence from the closed systemic foreground (inside-out) from now to doomsday won't make it open systemic background (outside-in) evidence.

Science does not want no evidence to the opposite of the opposite of one's theory or hypothesis, which you have failed to give, and have instead merely refused the evidences I gave which supported my point that the speed of gravitational waves is equal to that of the speed of light, which, is not expected in a scientific discussion in a scientific forum.

The observable -- absolutely relativistic -- universe in the light, the relativistic universe at the speed of light, the straight-line of space, straight arrow of time, universe, doesn't tell us a thing about how and what, where and when, the universe really is. Not one thing about how fast it truly is, meaning probably is. The speed of light actually slows everything down, has slowed and slows everything down observably, in the light. The more distant anything is, including the entirety of the universe, the less real it becomes. The less movement. The less motion. The less change. The greater the difference between what we observe as being the universe and the reality of the universe. The universe is made far less dimensional, far less faceted, than it truly is.

Indeed? You want to know what, where and when the universe really is? Let me tell you. It is here, at this moment which is continuously fleeing away from us, it is here, at the place from which we are always moving, relativistic to the entirety of the Universe.

Indeed, we might never be able to observe the most microscopic movements of every single quark, but that does not mean that the fact that we cannot observe is not scientific. We do not have any observation that has ever charted the course of a single electron for even a single second - we can only guess. Probability.

The very idea of those UFOs still talked about existing, if they exist, bothers me. They come from where (unseen, unidentified)? They go to where (unseen, unidentified)? Through what path, where (unseen, unidentified)? If they exist, the Earth is apparently an unintended, unmeant, accident (possibly an accident of navigation) along their highway of transit through the universe. If and when we get out there, we will find things out about a universe we cannot know or learn anything about from in here.

I do not get how that is related to this conversation.

It's a Multiverse Universe.

Indeed? May I ask you to show evidences about your theory/hypothesis? It will be really kind of you to.

 

[Atlan0001]

You just don't stop, and it shouldn't be permitted to continue! Again and again, and again, the answer is still no! You are nothing but harassment! You can do nothing but follow around snipping at heels Take "no(!)" for an answer to all your harassment: to all your savaging attacks! So far, we are a free people free to have free views on the cosmos at large no matter what you think of them, especially no matter what you think of originality if original. Your fanatical hatred of such freedom is only too obviously showing. Also, like a barking dog that simply will not quit its loud monotone barking, you are nothing but monotonous. It is all you are. State you own views and keep away from endlessly questioning the views of others. They can say the Moon is made of green cheese, or that the universe is on the back of a turtle, and it is turtles all the way up and down, if they want without being continuously, harassingly, questioned and savaged for their views by you.
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Albert Einstein -- "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds."

 

[Wolfshadw]

...and I've seen enough.

Closing this thread. Thanks to all who have participated.

Wolfshadw
Moderator