Is the source of dark energy beyond our visibility horizon?

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newtonian

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What are some scientific models as to how dark energy is propagated?<br /><br />Could it have been (and is) propagated, at least in part, from beyond our visibility horizon?<br /><br />Can it be propagated at faster than light speed?<br /><br />Was dark energy the first cause of expansion of our universe, or did it propagate later, as in the beginning of the inflationary epoch?
 
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dragon04

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What if "dark energy" is just the effect of a force acting on four dimensional space-time from "outside"?<br /><br />An 11 dimensional Universe could be hiding all kinds of easter eggs. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>
 
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kyle_baron

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From what I've read in S&T, Dark Energy permeates all space (is a property of space), and is not that dense (how they figured that out, I don't know). As opposed to Dark Matter, that clumps around galaxies. I agree with you that it's probably from another dimension. But that dimension is "inside" not outside our visible universe. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="4"><strong></strong></font></p> </div>
 
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dragon04

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<font color="yellow">But that dimension is "inside" not outside our visible universe.</font><br /><br />Equal arguments can be made in both cases. Based on 4 dimensional space-time, "dark energy" would appear to be a repulsive force. But at this point, there is no conclusive evidence that precludes it being an attractive force from "outside" 4 dimensional space-time as far as I know.<br /><br />Maybe one of our experts can point us in the right direction? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>
 
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kmarinas86

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<font color="yellow">What are some scientific models as to how dark energy is propagated?</font><br /><br />Dark energy propogation?<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Could it have been (and is) propagated, at least in part, from beyond our visibility horizon?</font><br /><br />As in say 14 billion light years from here, as we would be able to see it 14 billion years from now? Er, maybe. Note that beyond our visibility horizon does not mean outside 4D space time, nor does it <i>imply</i> an origin from other dimensions.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Can it be propagated at faster than light speed?</font><br /><br />Dunno.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Was dark energy the first cause of expansion of our universe, or did it propagate later, as in the beginning of the inflationary epoch?</font><br /><br />It appears to be another layering on the cake - no icing yet.
 
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newtonian

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Dragon04 - Yes, and I tend to consider alternate models so we don't all go down a 'wild goose chase' so to speak.<br /><br />For example, dark energy is assumed to be only one form of energy. There really is not proof, to my knowledge, that it is not 2 or more forms of invisible energy acting more or less in concert.<br /><br />Or, even that it is simple gravity from beyond our visibility horizon by a sort of domino effect [consider each dominoe a light cone, and consider that could produce effects from beyond our light cone.<br /><br />I.e. gravity by domino effect from more rapidly expanding matter in light cones at least partly beyond our visibility horizon. [a current pet theory of mine].<br /><br />And, for a way out possibility: Could tachyons expelled from our universe at its origin (or at a later inflationary epoch) propagate gravity (or dark energy) which is causing acceleration of expansion?
 
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alokmohan

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Does the universes accelaration cahane?Is it the cause of dark energy?But dark energy is supposed to be substantial in the universe.
 
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search

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Hello Newtonian<br /><br />Starting with your last question 4;<br />Was dark energy the first cause of expansion of our universe, or di it propagate later, as in the beginning of the inflationary epoch?<br /><br />Dark Energy is one (out of many) way to explain ACCELERATION of the universe not EXPANSION of universe. <br /><br />Dark energy can be explained in two ways:<br /><br />1. Cosmological Constant: The simplest explanation for dark energy is that it is simply the "cost of having space": that is, that a volume of space has some intrinsic, fundamental energy. This is the cosmological constant, sometimes called Lambda CDM. (hence Lambda-CDM model )<br /><br />2. Quintessence: a dynamic field whose energy density can vary in time and space. Quintessence is a scalar field which has an equation of state. The idea here is that, instead of relying on a slight asymmetry in particle physics to get our dark energy, we propose the existence of a (so far entirely hypothetical) type of field; recall that, in quantum field theory, "particles" and "fields" are largely the same thing.<br /><br />So now back to question number 1;<br />What are some scientific models as to how dark energy is propagated?<br /><br />Here is one (non cosmological constant)<br />Abstract (pasting is not good so read the PDF)<br />We reconstruct the equation of state $w(z)$ of dark energy (DE) using a recently released data set containing 172 type Ia supernovae without assuming the prior $w(z) geq -1$ (in contrast to previous studies). We find that dark energy evolves rapidly and metamorphoses from dust-like behaviour at high $z$ ($w simeq 0$ at $z sim 1$) to a strongly negative equation of state at present ($w lleq -1$ at $z simeq 0$). Dark energy metamorphosis appears to be a robust phenomenon which manifests for a large variety of SNe data samples provided one does not invoke the weak energy prior $
ho + p geq 0$. Invoking this prior
 
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newtonian

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SEARCH - First, note Serak's research into global rotation, or universal spin, as a cause of expansion and acceleration.<br /><br />Now, on question 2, which involves an edge to our universe, note this quote:<br /><br />Sciam, 3/05, p. 43 article on Big Bang<br /><br />“What does mark the edge of observable space? Here again<br />there has been confusion. If space were not expanding, the<br />most distant object we could see would now be about 14 billion<br />light-years away from us, the distance light could have<br />traveled in the 14 billion years since the big bang. But because<br />the universe is expanding, the space traversed by a photon<br />expands behind it during the voyage. Consequently, the current<br />distance to the most distant object we can see is about<br />three times farther, or 46 billion light-years.”<br /><br />So, yes, the edge of light and the edge of mass is indeed different.<br /><br />However, the above leaves open the possibility that the edge of mass may be larger in radius (in all directions) than the edge of light of our universe.<br /><br />Hence my theory that extremely distant mass may be causing acceleration of expansion from beyond our visibility horizon. <br /><br />In the latter scenario - way beyond!<br /><br />BTW - your post has some strange characters in place of accurate ones.<br /><br />Was that to illustrate loss of information due to random mutations?<br /><br />Do we have the equivalent of a DNA correction mechanism to restore the correct characters? <br /><br />[BTW - I have run out of time to research your above links, but I look forward to doing that soon - I have more time than usual because I caught the Flu{or something}. The beauty of the internet is that you can't spread viruses online!]
 
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search

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Hello Newtonion<br /><br />Virus do spreed over the net but that depends if you are a PC or Apple user...<br /><br />As for the virused post if you read the (brackets) above the post I mentioned that the paste was wrong so you can read the pdf itself. No DNA correction for the post you will have to use traditional western medicine or Pharmaceutical Ideology (take a pill to cover up the pain without solving the problem so you will buy more pills) so read the PDF<br /><br />Since I noticed you already read the Just Curious thread I will not comment on the size of the Universe.<br /><br />I hope you get well soon
 
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alokmohan

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What does mark the edge of observable space? Here again <br />there has been confusion. If space were not expanding, the <br />most distant object we could see would now be about 14 billion <br />light-years away from us, the distance light could have <br />traveled in the 14 billion years since the big bang. But because <br />the universe is expanding, the space traversed by a photon <br />expands behind it during the voyage. Consequently, the current <br />distance to the most distant object we can see is about <br />three times farther, or 46 billion light-years.” A very relvant link.<br />
 
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newtonian

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alokmohan - thank you. That was a joint effort started by SEARCH which I further researched from Scientific American, 3/05, p. 43.<br /><br />It helps determine the approximate mass that lies beyond our visibility horizon, i.e. beyond a radius of 46 bly up to 78+ bly.<br /><br />Like dark matter accelerating galaxy rotation, matter from beyond our visibility horizon might be accelerating expansion - just a thought, btw.
 
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