Junk from a SpaceX Dragon 'trunk' may have crashed into a Canadian farmer's field (photos)

Reading this article and others linked to, it seem to indicate that space junk hitting the ground is going to be an increasing hazard as the launch tempo picks up. Even the "reusable" SpaceX vehicles seem to have some throw-away parts that sometimes survive reentry. A 6' long, 90 pound thing falling out of the sky at a random location is not a trivial hazard. As the rate of occurrence happens, it may not remain a trivial risk to people on Earth.
 
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Reading this article and others linked to, it seem to indicate that space junk hitting the ground is going to be an increasing hazard as the launch tempo picks up. Even the "reusable" SpaceX vehicles seem to have some throw-away parts that sometimes survive reentry. A 6' long, 90 pound thing falling out of the sky at a random location is not a trivial hazard. As the rate of occurrence happens, it may not remain a trivial risk to people on Earth.
The reality is that companies will continue to allow this to happen as long as it's cheaper than doing something to prevent it. With the launch cadence that SpaceX is doing, it is inevitable that they are going to drop a piece of junk somewhere bad and kill someone.

They need to be forced to change their procedures to ensure that this doesn't happen. If the government(s) won't step up, then let's hope that the death(s) occur in the United States of Litigation so that the perpetrator can be sued into oblivion.
 
There is no such thing as "doesn't happen" or "zero chance of something happening". All probabilities of falling debris injuring a human are calculated, expressed in mathematical terms and kept within agreed bounds. FAA will not issue a license otherwise.
 
There is no such thing as "doesn't happen" or "zero chance of something happening". All probabilities of falling debris injuring a human are calculated, expressed in mathematical terms and kept within agreed bounds. FAA will not issue a license otherwise.
Bill,

The question raised by this and the other articles is whether the calculated risk level is the actual risk level.

Risk models require a lot of assumptions, along with a lot of data. There is uncertainty in both, and often errors, too. And, the models are usually "incomplete" - that is, they miss some parts of the total risk - sometimes the biggest parts.

For example, the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission long "guestimated" that the probability of a nuclear fission reactor core melting as "one in a million" per reactor per year of operation, but, when they actually contracted for MIT to make a risk model, it came out much higher than that. After fixing some of the biggest contributors to the total in the calculation, the result was still 10 times "one in a million". Fast forward some decades, and we are now in an era when there are lots of risk models being used for lots of nuclear fission power reactors, and those reactors and their models have been modified to produce probability estimates that are again "one in a million" or even a few tenths of that.

However, we have now had enough actual power reactors operate for enough years, and enough of them have actually melted their cores, that we now have statistical evidence that the current model calculations are too low by a factor of about 1000!

The lesson to take from that is not that we need to multiply other risk calculation results by 1000, but rather that we need to do some serious reality checking on the results of such models. The usual calculation of uncertainty ranges (e.g., 95% confidence that the real answer is within +/- x%) are typically not reliably bounding the real answer. The calculated uncertainty is usually too small.

And, then there is the question of what is an acceptable answer. There are now about 8 billion people on Earth. IF the "acceptable risk" is limited to "one in a million per person per year", then it would be "acceptable" to have falling space junk kill 8,000 people per year. But, is that really socially acceptable?

On the other hand, requiring that the space junk have a probability of less than one in million per year of killing a single person on Earth would be unattainable, and would put the individual risk at some absurdly low value like one in 8,000,000,000,000,000 (8 quadrillion for U.S. definition of "quadrillion").

Even the frequency of killing less than one person per year may not be the reality for much longer, assuming it is, now. That would require the probability per person to be less than "1.25 in 10 billion per year".

And, that would need to be the total for everything launched, all taken together. If the FAA is doing its calculations only on a per launch basis, then the total is really not being addressed. As humans increase the launch rate to hundreds of times the historical rate, it is important to consider what the total is becoming.

So, what is realistic for the amount of risk to be allowed from falling space junk? Currently, it is surely smaller than the risks of crashing airplanes to people on the ground, because we have statistics that prove that much. But, we also have procedures and regulations that are intended to reduce aircraft crash hazards to people on the ground.

It is a social/political question that will be addressed in a social/political manner. And, that will probably be steered more by emotion than quantitative risk assessment, once somebody actually gets seriously hurt or killed by falling space junk.
 
There is no such thing as "doesn't happen" or "zero chance of something happening". All probabilities of falling debris injuring a human are calculated, expressed in mathematical terms and kept within agreed bounds. FAA will not issue a license otherwise.
That's simply not true. There are numerous ways to ensure that objects burn up long before hitting the ground. The simplest is that you make the item in small pieces and attach them together in such a way that the pieces will separate when subjected to re-entry temperatures. There also exists the very expensive option of adding enough Δv to put the object into a solar orbit so that it never re-enters.

As for the FAA, US government agencies are notorious for not caring what happens when it doesn't affect the US directly.

The "problem" is that these methods cost money and no commercial operator is going to spend that money unless forced to by the government.
 
Yes, it is correct that there are numerous ways of insuring things burn up before they hit the ground but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am talking about a total risk assessment. Given that we try to safely deorbit our rockets, we must still calculate the odds that the deorbit procedure would fail. There will be accidents. Nothing is risk free. As far as I know, it is only the Chinese who send stuff up there with no consideration whatsoever for where it comes down. Current US rockets go up only after calculation of the odds. My original point is they do not use "zero chance" as their benchmark since it is not obtainable. Your insistence they do is unrealistic.
 
Yes, it is correct that there are numerous ways of insuring things burn up before they hit the ground but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about. I am talking about a total risk assessment. Given that we try to safely deorbit our rockets, we must still calculate the odds that the deorbit procedure would fail. There will be accidents. Nothing is risk free. As far as I know, it is only the Chinese who send stuff up there with no consideration whatsoever for where it comes down. Current US rockets go up only after calculation of the odds. My original point is they do not use "zero chance" as their benchmark since it is not obtainable. Your insistence they do is unrealistic.
What is unrealistic is thinking that it is perfectly OK for the space industry to decide what odds they are willing to tolerate for killing someone who has not agreed to the process. Astronauts understand and implicitly agree to the odds that their flight might kill them. People on the ground are given no such choice and THAT is the problem. While nothing is risk free, the risks CAN be reduced but won't be because of the costs.
 
Society does lots of things that create risks for individuals. Building dams, roads, airports, etc., etc., etc. all contribute to the risk that some particular individual might get hurt or killed.

So, it really isn't a matter of getting a buy-in from EVERY person who is exposed to some added risk. It is a decision by a government agency, based on laws passed by some sort of legislative branch and regulations adopted by some sort of executive branch. In a democracy, those laws and rules are subject to citizen inputs, and the risk levels are supposed to be openly discussed. Of course, this discussion sometimes gets more emotional than scientific, and so projects like nuclear power reactors tend to go in and out of favor as people's attitudes are changed by various events like accidents or threats of greater risks that people want to mitigate.

In the case of space debris, the U.S. is currently the leading launch provider, so working on the U.S. regulation's treatment of risk would be a useful place to start. But, China seems to be determined to exceed the U.S. in launch rate, so this will ultimately become an issue for international politics. And, we all know how ineffective that is for creating social order. But, it is a discussion worth having.
 
And now this: https://www.foxweather.com/earth-space/nc-space-x-seven-debris-trunk-find .

It seems like SpaceX and NASA are going to need to provide more precise deorbiting capabilities for all space junk soon, or they will hit somebody pretty soon.

And, I have to wonder what the effects on Earth will eventually be when we are having things burning up or dumping in a designated spot in the South Pacific Ocean at the levels associated with all of those activities the "space commerce" folks keep telling us will happen.

At some point, dilution is not the solution to pollution. For a historical perspective, read https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/24/world/thomas-midgley-jr-leaded-gas-freon-scn/index.html .
 

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