life on mars

[akashrao]

nice to read argumentation

if life on mars exists in polar ice or under or very deep inside anywhere else to survive onslaught of sun in the wake of atmospheric absence, then why not elsewhere, said one string of argument
if atmosphere got blown away by an unknown meteorite strike then how can life survive, or even water, said another
if water did exist then where was upstream and where was downstream, said a third one
the sedimentary formations do not look like depositions of water that flowed once, said the fourth
volcanic and water existence occur side by side, said a fifth

thus summing up

 

[Geomartian]

In over 20 years of researching impact craters I found a big blank spot in the canvas. Asteroids and Comets with very high velocities >50-500 kms were totally absent. No simulations, no papers.

If the object is big enough and fast enough it can punch through a planet like Mars. The Hipparcos survey has local stars with relative velocities of up to 500 kms.

Many of the gross geological features found on the Earth, Moon, and Mars could be better explained by simple high velocity >50 kms impacts.

“The science is in”a phrase often used by NASA and the New York Times. When the simplest explanation for a phenomenon is completely discounted (a Martian volcano emitting steam) it says a lot about the quality of the science.

The antipodal effect was used with Chicxulub to explain away the high velocity impact which created the Deccan Traps. This is not pressure release melting but is the direct emplacement of billions of megatons of energy deep into the planet.

Very high velocity impacts are rare but for over 80 years they were completely absent from all planetary and geological scientific literature.

Oumuamua and Borisov forced NASA/Houston into acknowledging the existence of high velocity interstellar objects.

I found interstellar asteroid impacts within Earth’s geological record 5 years ago.

 

[sunstance]

why did life end on mars? when would it re-begin ...

No one say life on mars is not there, only that it has not been seen on the surface which may be limited to our views on a planet as life. life under the surface can be considered normal. mars may contain a rich atmosphere under in caverns into the centre of the world as a normal environmental area

 

[akashrao]

 

[Catastrophe]

No one say life on mars is not there, only that it has not been seen on the surface which may be limited to our views on a planet as life. life under the surface can be considered normal. mars may contain a rich atmosphere under in caverns into the centre of the world as a normal environmental area

I hear what you say. Maybe life was there b b years ago. Most unlikely any beyond zero exists now. You say no?

P.S. by life we can only talk prokaryotic.

 

[dfjchem721]

I found interstellar asteroid impacts within Earth’s geological record 5 years ago.

We would all like to see the evidence for this claim as it seems the most extraordinary. Not meaning to be hostile here at all, but extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. Providing some, and not just more undocumented commentary, would dramatically help your position.

Moving on to Mars:

Geomartian, there is a major problem with you notion that an impactor at Hellas Planitia 200 mya resulted in the northern flood planes of Mars.

First of all, numerous searches tell us that Hellas Planitia likely formed during the Late Heavy Bombardment period of the Solar System, approximately 4.1 to 3.8 billion years ago. That puts a major dent (no pun intended) in the notion that this massive impact "opposite" of the flood planes resulted in their formation 200 mya. It is seems unikely that the experts on this crater could be off by a factor of ca. 20x on its age!

Now that there is this major issue of age of the impact and age of the flood planes, I would offer an alternative for the flood planes formation, and it does result from the impact at Hellas Planitia, but in a much different way.

It is impossible to believe that even a large impactor at Hellas Planitia is going to pass through most of the planet and then exit on the opposite side of entry, regardless of its likely speed. Not going to happen. When the object hits, it is going to start excavating a large amount of the impact zone, and throw much of the impactor and surface material into an ejecta blanket surrounding the impact site, or back into space.

What remains of the impactor begins to melt and this molten form, retaining significant momentum, is going to start melting the Martian subsurface rock in its immediate (and surrounding) path. Melting all that Martian rock is going to slow the asteroid's remaining molten mass very quickly as it loses both heat and velocity. I doubt very many people accept that it went into the planet and exited.

More than likely, it would have fractured the crust in the direction of its impact shock wave (i.e. the North's "crust"). Such fracturing would allow a "path of least resistance" for any future lava eruptions, easily explaining the vast flood planes which occurred much later, probably from a molten mantle which has probably solidified by now.

The more I read of your posts, the less believable they are. You still have not provided me with a reference or link to that "steam emission" image of Mars. I am guessing it was photo-shopped and is not real. All my searching comes up empty on this.

And you note: "Oumuamua and Borisov forced NASA/Houston into acknowledging the existence of high velocity interstellar objects." Why would these object have "forced" them to acknowledge such a thing? Are they hiding more information on aliens and flying saucers too? Regrettably, there is clearly something questionable about the "evidence" you have presented, and its evaluation.

However, I do thank you for providing me an opportunity to brush up on the geology of Mars. That much is well appreciated.

 

[Catastrophe]

A truly remarkable summary. Deserves a commendation.

 

[Geomartian]

Since this thread is about Life on Mars it would be best to open separate threads on different technical aspects.

None of the impactor survived. At these high velocities the impactor is totally vaporized. Even vaporized the mass and density barely changes, it still cuts through the planet. Like a waterjet cutting through steel.

Your impact scenario for fracturing the northern hemisphere is a reasonable argument and may be correct. Massive amounts of molten rock are created when the impactor’s kinetic energy converts to heat within an enclosed space. The (potentially) missing mass from northern hemisphere only suggests that something passed through and kept going.

It is also possible that the missing northern mass occurred at some earlier time. Since we don’t know if northern Mars was intact before the impact at Hellas Plantitia my argument needs more supporting data. Typically for high velocity impacts your scenario would be the most probable.

I will create other threads for other details since they should be in their correct categories.

 

[sunstance]

I would put money that our views are limited to our planets environment, no-one has ever stated that our planet is normal just rare. it is possible that life exist underneath in caverns all the way through it, with atmospheres and gases and life in one form or anther. even if we landed there it would still take another 200 hundred years even to get down there. in the older day most on earth build caves and lived underneath he earth. we only came out after everything bad was either stopped or disappeared. it does look like life may of gone underground one way or another, an attempt to survive the planet anything civilised would of used the material to dug tunnels. if the environment created is all that is relevant and anything could of happened , it is so easy to lose all the history of the stars in an intelligence must be replenished.

 

[Catastrophe]

This sort of idea:
" it is possible that life exist underneath in caverns all the way through it"
will not work It is very hot in the middle of most planets and also subject to radioactivity. But nice try

 

[sunstance]

there is a high probability around 90 per cent that life does exist in mars. the joke at the moment and for some time is if you go there, stay away from the caves.

 

[Catastrophe]

And the rest of the Solar System is yours except for Europa.

 

[akashrao]

 

[Geomartian]

Since dfjchem721 put a lot of work into your response I am obliged to respond.

It does look like the image I used was photoshopped. Here is a ESA satellite image which shows the event.

 

[sunstance]

ok so bring me up to speed this is mars a picture in colour with some tunnel like area up to a crater . because from what I have heard mars has been mapped more then earth at this stage , so just between us why do you think that is. however cool picture. one thing is for certain we need better telescope there to check everything first. intel is everything.

 

[akashrao]

can information about mars be vulnerable to misinformation?

 

[sunstance]

I think there is so much information and we need more it is about information and the process that come with providing people knowledge.
if someone changes the mars pictures to look like a holiday camp for tourist I think that is not useful , it is an alien world.
I think transparency is a governing force over information and I don't believe anyone would attempt manipulate it no.

 

[Geomartian]

It is possible that each photo was from a different satellite (NASA or ESA) though my original image had a very good vantage point which was a bit suspicious. It is possible that the first image was more of an illustration than an actual image. The ESA image looks squirrelly unless you understand composite satellite passes.

 

[Geomartian]

I still argue that the Martian volcano was emitting steam. Water clouds and fog can be often be seen in low lying areas like Valles Marineris and Hellas Planitia. This cloud is located almost 20 km higher up and is practically a vacuum. I don’t think there is anywhere near enough water vapor at this height for the explanation given. Steam is the simplest explanation.

 

[akashrao]

right
does / did mars experience climate change ... ?

 

[Geomartian]

The fogs and clouds may be limited to the equivalent of Martian summer.

 

[akashrao]

would climate change happen in future on mars ...

 

[sunstance]

this is an agreement about what colour it could be in a black and white photo the Martian picture may be anything . however it could be a base being made as we speak.

 

[sunstance]

Since this thread is about Life on Mars it would be best to open separate threads on different technical aspects.

None of the impactor survived. At these high velocities the impactor is totally vaporized. Even vaporized the mass and density barely changes, it still cuts through the planet. Like a waterjet cutting through steel.

Your impact scenario for fracturing the northern hemisphere is a reasonable argument and may be correct. Massive amounts of molten rock are created when the impactor’s kinetic energy converts to heat within an enclosed space. The (potentially) missing mass from northern hemisphere only suggests that something passed through and kept going.

It is also possible that the missing northern mass occurred at some earlier time. Since we don’t know if northern Mars was intact before the impact at Hellas Plantitia my argument needs more supporting data. Typically for high velocity impacts your scenario would be the most probable.

I will create other threads for other details since they should be in their correct categories.

put me down for there is life under mars still alive

 

[IG2007]

Er, sunstance, no study says that there is 90% chance that life still exists on Mars. But there are many studies that say that there is a high chance that life might have existed on Mars before.