Mars rover finds "puddles" ??

[radarredux]

These are issues we discussed at length on these boards some time ago, but a soon to be published IEEE papers hits on them again. The false-color image in the New Scientist article does look interesting. Also, the scientist proposes a simple test which I am surprised was not already done -- disturb the apparent "water" with the rover and then take a second photograph. If it is liquid, then the disturbance will disappear.<br /><br />Mars rover finds "puddles" on the planet's surface<br />http://space.newscientist.com/article/dn12026-mars-rover-finds-puddles-on-the-planets-surface.html<br /><br />"A new analysis of pictures taken by the exploration rover Opportunity reveals what appear to be small ponds of liquid water on the surface of Mars.<br /><br />The report identifies specific spots that appear to have contained liquid water two years ago, when Opportunity was exploring a crater called Endurance. It is a highly controversial claim, as many scientists believe that liquid water cannot exist on the surface of Mars today because of the planet’s thin atmosphere."<br />...

 

[spacefire]

can't they figure out from ambient conditions if water can or cannot exist in liquid form? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[j05h]

<i> > can't they figure out from ambient conditions if water can or cannot exist in liquid form? </i><br /><br />There are to many variables. If it is briny, especially with some exotic salts, then the temperature it freezes at goes way down. Researchers have mixed up brines that could survive on Mars, but the formulae were educated guesses. Really what is required is a direct sample of Mars water to know, and even then it would probably very depending on location.<br /><br />This is really interesting and great news if true. There are some real oddities on Mars.<br /><br />josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[deapfreeze]

If it is frozen we could start the first Universal Hockey League. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just joking .. It would be real cool if they do find some water on Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>William ( deapfreeze ) Hooper</em></font></p><p><font size="1">http://deapfreeze-amateur-astronomy.tk/</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[j05h]

There are essentially oceans of frozen water on Mars already. But it is apparently locked up in glacier-like structures and in the polar caps. Check out the "rafting" in Elysium, along with the huge "splat" craters, both strong signs of lots of water ice under the dust. <br /><br />People have proposed pools and rivers on Mars based on photos from some of the orbiters, but that analysis is usually rejected by the research community. If this proves accurate, then larger pooling events will have to be reconsidered.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[paulscottanderson]

I wish this was surface water; unfortunately in this case I doubt it also. As mentioned in some other forums, the "puddles" in the photo (which looks false colour to me as well) are just a part of many other similar linear features on Burns Cliff in Endurance crater. They are <i>not</i> on the crater floor, as stated, they are on the cliff wall, which is fairly steep. The "puddle" area is circled here in a linked photo of Burns Cliff, compared to the photo in the article: <br /><br />http://web.mac.com/paulscottanderson/iWeb/planetaria/puddle_burnscliff.jpg <br /><br />http://web.mac.com/paulscottanderson/iWeb/planetaria/puddle.jpg <br /><br />Anyone who is familiar with the studies done at Endurance crater knows that cliff is rather steep. Water could perhaps seep out here and run down the cliff briefly, but not likely pool. Unless this is water residue which has frozen in place, I think these are probably dust or soil deposits, as indicated by the MER team. One caveat is that this is the only image shown in the article. If there are others, I'd like to see them when the paper is published. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">-----------------</span></font></p><p><font size="1"><span style="font-weight:bold" class="Apple-style-span">The Meridiani Journal</span><br />a chronicle of planetary exploration<br />web.me.com/meridianijournal</font> </p> </div>

 

[spacefire]

that crossed my mind too, but where do you draw the line between water and slush? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[j05h]

This has all proven to be bad analysis taken/performed out of context. Burns Cliff is fairly steep, no way this is pooled water. It is most likely fine dust covering rock strata. Taken at the "flat" view, it does look like standing water, especially in false-color blue. <br /><br />Slush is a state of water. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>