meteorite?

[docm]

It was likely very early march since my dad used to plow as soon as the thaw set in. IIRC it fell just as the Tonight Show started, which would put it between 11:30 PM and 12:00 PM in these parts. Also narrows it to Mon - Fri.<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[99980]

fantastic pics. Did you have the sample analysed by scientists? Was there a meteor shower that year, do you have a clue as to where it came from (1951 you said?)

 

[MeteorWayne]

Ahh, the Johnny Carson days. Sweet <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

There are only minor active meteor showers at that time, mostly from the Antihelion region.<br /><br />In any case, a meteorite would not come from a meteor shower, since the source for showers is cometary debris (dust bunnies), while meteorites come from asteroid remnants (rocks from space).<br /><br />Two different sources.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

It not likely a Pallasite; no Olivine I can see. <br /><br />It's been seen by a physicist and a geologist. They called it a "a weird one", atypical for most categories; an "Ungrouped Iron". <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[99980]

Thanks Wayne, asteroid remnants not particles from comets, hence the size of this specimen? Have I got it right as comet particles can be pea sized if your lucky? What are shooting stars, same as meteor showers? I feel so dumb asking this.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Don't feel dumb, that's why we are here. This happens to be my area of expertise. In other areas, I'm dumb as a brick.<br />We all learn a lot here <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> especially when we ask questions, and share what we know <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />Most meteors are the size of smoke particles (for fast showers like the Leonids and Perseids) to grains of sand size. And yes, pea sized objects are there too.<br /><br />Bright ones (as bright as Venus for these showers) might be marble sized.<br /><br />For slower showers (like October's Draconids), the size range is sand grain to golf ball sized.<br /><br />Speed makes a big difference. The Leonids, traveling three times the speed of the Draconids have 9 times the energy, so a small piece makes a brighter meteor.<br /><br />And yes, shooting stars is the popular term for meteors.<br /><br />Meteor showers occur when the earth plows through streams of cometary debris every year, and rates jump from the background 5-15 per hour to 20-30 per hour for the Lyrids and Orionids, and 80-100 an hour for the Perseids, Geminids, and Quadrantids.<br /><br />A meteor storm occurs when we run through particularly dense sheets of material, such as the recent Leonid stroms ( />3600/hour=1/second) to the Draconid storms (10,000 per hour=3/second) to the great Leonid storms of the past (up to 40 meteors PER SECOND=140,000 per hour)<br /><br />However, none of these cometary streams have objects (and speeds) that allow stuff to reach the ground.<br /><br />Those come from asteroids, catching up to the earth from behind (slower, so don't get smashed my atmospheric impact as quickly), and made of much more dense (iron and rock) material.<br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">made of much more dense (iron and rock) material</font><br /><br />Yup. That lump of mine could do some serious damage if dropped on someones foot. <br /><br />3488;<br /><br />I think either shock or thermal expansion (or both) caused it to cleave along the crystal boundaries, something like the visible cracks but more so. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

For sure.<br />I have a piece of the Canyon Diablo meteorite (Meteor Crater) that I pass around at me meteor lectures.<br />I love the look on people faces (or the sound of their exclamation, if I'm outside at night when I pass it around).<br /><br />Most objects in peoples common experiences are nowhere near that dense. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

To clarify one thing; I know how long the fireball lasted because at that age I wasn't into the Tonight Show but was on the back porch with a neighbor girl. We saw it during a break for some air <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[99980]

Thanks Wayne. I don't think I have understood this correctly. A meteorite is a metioroid (particle of a comet ) that survives to reach the ground. So what is an asteroid, a larger part of a comet or rock from somewhere else? I guess from what you said re my sighting 26 Aug that it was slower moving hence probably larger and moving se to nw that it may have been an asteroid, ie a bigger bit from a comet rather than a speck of dust? Would this explain the different colours I saw, as opposed to a plain white which appears to be far away in shooting star sightings?

 

[heyscottie]

A meteoroid is a particle in orbit that may enter the earth's atmosphere. It may come from a comet, an asteroid, or interstellar dust or junk.<br /><br />If it enter's the atmosphere, and leaves a visible trail, the display is called a meteor.<br /><br />If it survives to hit the ground, it is called a meteorite. It is much more likely to have been from an asteroid than from a comet, due to sizes, densities, compositions, etc.<br /><br />If it leaves a brilliant trail and/or explodes in the atmosphere, it is called a bolide.<br />--------------<br />It does sound as though your sighting either came from a slower moving larger piece of debris, such as a piece from an asteroid, or a piece of space junk (although Wayne was unable to find any space junk reentry predictions for the right time.) In either case, as different elements burn, they create different colors, meaning your specimen was probably differentiated, and may have been breaking up as it burned up.

 

[MeteorWayne]

A meteorite (that makes it to the ground) is not from a comet, but rather from an asteroid.<br />Comet debris is not very dense, and is ejected from the comet when ices change to gas. The rest of the ice sublimates, so you are left with a lightweight dustball.<br /><br />Asteroids are made form rock and metal, without much ice, so are much denser.<br /><br />The fact that the meteor you saw lasted so long suggests 2 things.<br />1. it was slow moving, so more likely to be a rocky asteroid (traveling around the sun the same direction as the earth), as opposed to comets, which can come from any direction.<br /><br />Asteroids generally hit the earth at 25-40,000 mph.<br />Comets can hit us at greater than 160,000 mph, since the come from any direction, even orbiting around the sun in the opposite direction, so we hit them head on.<br /><br />2 It was denser than most comet dust. Since a comet particle's ice sublimates (changes to gas) the left over meteoroid has a lot of holes in it (from where the ice was) and is generally very small.<br />Pieces of asteroids (also called meteoroids) are rock and metal, with little or no ice spaces.<br /><br />As for the color, for most cometary meteors, most of the color actually comes from the air molecules reradiating the enrgy, much as a neon sign does.<br /><br />With a larger object that can have pieces survive to the ground, some of the elements of the object also glow with their charachteristic colors.<br /><br />It appears (I didn't see it <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) that what you saw was either a large comet piece or a small asteroid chunk, so there was enough mass there to create some colors from the object itself rather than the air alone.<br /><br />Another factor which affects color is brightness. Color detection is from the cones in the human visual system which only respond to photon levels brighter than say the stars in Cassiopia, or the big dipper. Dimmer meteors don't activate the cones enough so are only seen as white. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Cool, do you know it's path across the sky?<br />What constellation it started and ended in?<br /><br />It's a shame that in 1961 the fireball reporyting networks (and e-mail) didn't exist. Like I said, you've got a unique valuable data point there.<br />Too bad it's not in the worldwide meteorite fall databases. <br /><br />They are so rare, the data would be as valuable as the object itself. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

Lessee....{consulting wet-ware data files}<br /><br />Damn...I haven't thought about this for a long time <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br />The porch faced East and I had got up to go in and get us some pops, which required me to turn to the West. I saw the flash almost immediately. <br /><br />It was from due West traveling almost due East or damned close to it, The trail was somewhat foreshortened so it was coming almost, but not quite, along my line of sight. I'd guess the initial elevation at about 35-45 degrees. Well before it reached overhead it broke up.<br /><br />Not long after we heard the "sizzle", much like a bullet passing by (yes, I've heard that sound...too often) followed by the "thud" in the field.<br /><br />The IP was ~150 meters from the porch. The hole was actually an elongated egg shape with loose dirt sprayed East in a fan ~60 degrees wide and several meters long. The rock was 1.5 meter down. Getting there isn't as easy as it sounds because in these parts once you get more than 2/3 to 1 meter down you're into fine wet sand then a layer of clays.<br /><br />None of the small missing pieces were to be found, but to be honest we didn't look that hard.<br /><br />Helpful? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[99980]

thanks to Wayne and Scottie for all this info

 

[MeteorWayne]

Yes, actually quite helpful.<br /><br />An event like that is burned deep into your memory, which is why I'm sure you could recall that detail, and that was a lot of detail. Not bad for 46 years ago!!<br /><br />Notice the direction was from the west, as is typical for asteroidal fragments.<br /><br />Thanx!<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

Glad it was informative, but it wasn't all memory. Many details came from an old journal, mainly the hole and ejecta data. As for the rest that's burned into the wetware, big time.<br /><br />You probably spend more time thinking about asteroid frags than I do, so what is the origin of highly crystallized metal fragments like this? I always presumed a large collision melted at least one body and crystals formed slowly in the core as it cooled. Another collision shattered but didn't melt it, so a portion ended up in our soybean field.<br /><br />Close? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[99980]

Did you eliminate possibility of your rock being lunar basalt? Not from Mars according to pics of Mars samples I have seen. If it was me I would be desperate to get more scientific analysis. You have certainly stirred my interest.

 

[docm]

Checked some pix of lunar basalts online & didn't see anything similar to this thing <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[3488]

You are correct docm.<br /><br />it is NOT a lunar basalt. I have been lucky enough to have seen a few moon rocks including <br />the white Genesis Rock with my own eyes (from Apollo 15).<br /><br />There were lunar basalts in that collection, but none looked like your example.<br /><br />Below: NWA 479, lunar meteorite (lunar mare basalt).<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Dhofar 287.<br /><br />REFERENCES & CLASSIFICATION: A dark gray, 154 g black stone without <br />fusion crust was found in the Dhofar region of Oman, 400 m from Dhofar 025. <br />Classification and mineralogy (M. Nazarov, Vernad; L. Taylor, UTenn): contains <br />two adjacent lithologies, mare basalt (95 vol%) and regolith breccia (5 vol%).<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Since you didn't see it with your own eyes, you don't really know that, Andrew. Images can be deceiving.<br /><br />I doubt even if I saw it with my own eyes I would be able to make that judgement.<br /><br />docm has the best view, and the most to gain from it being a rare object, so until proven otherwise, I have to go with his viewpoint. <br /><br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[3488]

Lunar Basalt Apollo 12 in pristine condition.<br /><br />Lunar basalt from the Apollo 12 site; it is fine-grained and pitted by micrometeorite <br />bombardment. This is the prevalent rock type in the maria.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[99980]

I am just revisiting my (meteoroid?) sighting on 26 August 2007. MeteorWayne was kind enough to give me some basic info at the time to guide me as to what I could have seen. I have since read some stuff about near earth asteroid events. I wonder if this could have been one?