Meteorites and volcanoes may have helped jump-start life on Earth

[Admin]

Iron particles from meteorites and volcanoes could have catalyzed chemical reactions to form some of the organic compounds essential for life.

Meteorites and volcanoes may have helped jump-start life on Earth : Read more

 

[rod]

"Nobody knows how life got started here, but we're one step closer to learning how its vital components formed."

Well, the other day we had this interesting report on how abiogenesis could get kick started. Solar 'superflares' millions of times stronger than anything today may have sparked life on Earth, https://forums.space.com/threads/so...g-today-may-have-sparked-life-on-earth.61536/

Keep a list updated of these reports.

 

[rod]

My note, good to see this in the space.com article.

“The oldest fossil evidence for life on Earth is estimated to be between 3.75 and 4.28 billion years old, but nobody really knows how or when life got a foothold on our planet.” "Unfortunately, there are almost no geological records from earlier than four billion years ago, so we don't really know how many active volcanoes would have been present at that time," Semenov told Space.com in an interview. A significant degree of volcanism would have been needed to produce enough catalysts, but too much and the ash would have blocked the young sun's light, reducing temperatures on Earth. All the experiments required temperatures above 300 degrees Fahrenheit (150 degrees Celsius) to operate efficiently, and the young Earth, perhaps tens of millions to 100 million years after the formation of the moon 4.5 billion years ago, would still have been very hot, with steaming oceans above recently solidified magma. Earth was also being heavily bombarded by meteorites and asteroids during this era, evidence for which can be found in the form of them having left their mark on our nearest neighbor, the moon.”

My thought, this report by space.com does present some catastrophism in this explanation for the origin of life on Earth. The giant impact model for the origin of the Moon, many asteroid and meteorite bombardments and the Faint Young Sun are part of the story of abiogenesis creating life on Earth. Something that was not in Charles Darwin warm little pond from the early 1880s.

 

[billslugg]

Oldest life was 3.75-4.28 billion years old.
We had water at least as far back as 3.8 billion years ago, possibly 4.28 billion. (O'Neil-2012).
Other source says there was water starting only 2000 years after the impact of Theia, 4.5 billion years ago. (Sleep-2001)

Life could have taken as much as 750 million years to develop. This assumes water was in existence 4.5Bya but it took until 3.75Bya for life to occur.

BTW, "warm little pond" has insufficient energy to do the job. "Irradiated warm little pond" now on the scene.

 

[rod]

Interesting billslugg in your post #4. The time when fossils showing life on Earth appear needs to be firmly dated now, I feel.

Canadian bacteria-like fossils called oldest evidence of life, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-science-life-idUSKBN16858B, 01-March-2017. "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Microfossils up to almost 4.3 billion years old found in Canada of microbes are similar to the bacteria that thrive today around sea floor hydrothermal vents and may represent the oldest-known evidence of life on Earth, scientists said on Wednesday."..."The scientists said the primordial microbes’ structure closely resembled modern bacteria that dwell near iron-rich hydrothermal vents. They believe that, like their modern counterparts, they were iron-eaters. The rock’s composition was consistent with a deep-sea vent environment."

My observation, fossil record evidence of life like this dated back 4.28 Gyr, does not show evolution of these microbes if they appear like what we see living today on Earth, just an observation. 4.28 Gyr ago, much bombardment and the giant impact model uses a proto-Earth with much less mass before the impact with postulated Theia. Reports I have in my home database, tracking all this good science (as I can) shows the atmosphere of the proto-earth could be chiefly stripped away and much water too in various reporting over the years. Microbes flourishing on Earth 4.28 Gyr ago is a problem for the warm little pond, even if *irradiated*. All kinds of catastrophic bombardments now in this period

 

[rod]

Other reports on the 4.28 Gyr microbes published over the years too.

Diverse life forms may have evolved earlier than previously thought, https://phys.org/news/2022-04-diverse-life-evolved-earlier-previously.html, April 2022.

"Diverse microbial life existed on Earth at least 3.75 billion years ago, suggests a new study led by UCL researchers that challenges the conventional view of when life began. For the study, published in Science Advances, the research team analyzed a fist-sized rock from Quebec, Canada, estimated to be between 3.75 and 4.28 billion years old. In an earlier Nature paper, the team found tiny filaments, knobs and tubes in the rock which appeared to have been made by bacteria...Lead author Dr. Dominic Papineau (UCL Earth Sciences, UCL London Center for Nanotechnology, Center for Planetary Sciences and China University of Geosciences) said: "Using many different lines of evidence, our study strongly suggests a number of different types of bacteria existed on Earth between 3.75 and 4.28 billion years ago." "This means life could have begun as little as 300 million years after Earth formed. In geological terms, this is quick—about one spin of the Sun around the galaxy."

Pinning down accurate dates for microbe fossils and if before 4 Gyr, working all that catastrophism operating in the early solar system into the abiogenesis experiments, could be very interesting.

 

[Atilla De Bum]

Oldest life was 3.75-4.28 billion years old.
We had water at least as far back as 3.8 billion years ago, possibly 4.28 billion. (O'Neil-2012).
Other source says there was water starting only 2000 years after the impact of Theia, 4.5 billion years ago. (Sleep-2001)

Life could have taken as much as 750 million years to develop. This assumes water was in existence 4.5Bya but it took until 3.75Bya for life to occur.

BTW, "warm little pond" has insufficient energy to do the job. "Irradiated warm little pond" now on the scene.

Cosmic radiation before the atmosphere got very thick, Naturally occurring radiation from the Uranium and the decay daughter products, on this Highly Radioactive Planet.

Or it was just a left over bit of food from an aliens picnic basket.

 

[Atlan0001]

A "chicken and egg" question, not really meant to be answered, unless....

Which came first, the universe or life? Or is that question a wrong question to ask in the first place? A different explanation being, from eternity to eternity, "the life of the universe (singular) . . . and of the universes (plural)." Not necessarily exactly life as we think we understand life, but still "building blocks" (a primordial soup) of foundational life always around and always underlying the life of the universe, or life in the universe, or both, as we think we know life to be.

Hmmm, to be continued elsewhere....

 

[Harry Costas]

Is there life out there?
It is possible considering life is recorded about 4.2 billion years ago on earth. Some say not enough time to start on Earth.
We know that amino acids, the basic building blocks of DNA have been found in space.
The question is this.
If life evolved on Earth, where would it start?
Needs water.
Needs chemicals, amino acids.
Needs a neutral space where life can start and evolve.
Needs heat.
Bottom of oceans near volcanic exhaust.
Away from the exhaust but close enough to absorb chemicals.
Presence of amino acids.
Time to evolve and diversify.

 

[billslugg]

Life had 750 million years to evolve.

They are saying that experiments similar to above do not show high enough rates of synthesis. Higher energies are needed, such as cosmic rays or uranium disintegrations.

 

[Atlan0001]

Some people believe the life of and in the universe is limited to a most narrow, an incredibly narrow, range of possibilities for it just because life on Earth, or what we observe of life on Earth, seems to be. Altogether, life may have a vastly wider, vastly greater, set of possibilities for it than we credit it with. It may have differing bases for life and ours is just one base of many possible bases.

We may not even recognize a lot of the life as being life, at first glance, and there is a good possibility a lot of that life won't recognize Earth-life as being any kind of life.

 

[billslugg]

In Earth's crust, uranium is at 4 parts per million.
0.72% is U-235 with half life of 704 million years, emits 4MeV alpha particle.
99.28% is U-238 with half life of 4.5e9 years, emits 4MeV alpha particle.

Every kilogram of crust currently has 4e-6 kg uranium.
2.88e-8 kg U-235
3.97e-6 kg U-238

However, 4.5 billion years ago is 6.3 half lives for U-235 and one half life for U-238 so the amounts in each kilogram of crust back then would have been:
79 times the U-235 or 2.26e-6 kg
Twice the U-238 or 7.94e-6 kg

Convert to moles per kilogram of crust:
9.62e-9 moles U-235
3.34e-8 moles U-238

Convert to atoms per kilogram:
5.79e15 atoms U-235
2.01e16 atoms U-238

Decays per half life:
2.90e15 for U-235
1.00e16 for U-238

Average decays per second over a half life:
0.13 Bq for U-235
0.09 Bq for U-236
Total is .22 Bq or once per 5 seconds

Thus each kilogram of Earth crust, at the time life began, was emitting a 4MeV alpha particle about every 5 seconds. Is this enough to have catalyzed life?

You make the call.

 

[Atilla De Bum]

Intense gamma radiation from Earth's Natural Uranium and its Decay products would have supplied enough energy to cause ionic bonding and molecule fusion billions of years ago.

 

[rod]

In Earth's crust, uranium is at 4 parts per million.
0.72% is U-235 with half life of 704 million years, emits 4MeV alpha particle.
99.28% is U-238 with half life of 4.5e9 years, emits 4MeV alpha particle.

Every kilogram of crust currently has 4e-6 kg uranium.
2.88e-8 kg U-235
3.97e-6 kg U-238

However, 4.5 billion years ago is 6.3 half lives for U-235 and one half life for U-238 so the amounts in each kilogram of crust back then would have been:
79 times the U-235 or 2.26e-6 kg
Twice the U-238 or 7.94e-6 kg

Convert to moles per kilogram of crust:
9.62e-9 moles U-235
3.34e-8 moles U-238

Convert to atoms per kilogram:
5.79e15 atoms U-235
2.01e16 atoms U-238

Decays per half life:
2.90e15 for U-235
1.00e16 for U-238

Average decays per second over a half life:
0.13 Bq for U-235
0.09 Bq for U-236
Total is .22 Bq or once per 5 seconds

Thus each kilogram of Earth crust, at the time life began, was emitting a 4MeV alpha particle about every 5 seconds. Is this enough to have catalyzed life?

You make the call.

"Thus each kilogram of Earth crust, at the time life began, was emitting a 4MeV alpha particle about every 5 seconds. Is this enough to have catalyzed life?



You make the call."

This needs experimental verification in the lab showing non-living matter subjected to this alpha particle bombardment creates a single, living cell that can reproduce and evolve, and no events destroying everything during this creation process envisioned.

 

[rod]

Intense gamma radiation from Earth's Natural Uranium and its Decay products would have supplied enough energy to cause ionic bonding and molecule fusion billions of years ago.

What billslugg said and this view, needs experimental verification in the lab showing how such *intense gamma radiation* creates a living cell, from non-living matter. That cell must reproduce and not be destroyed by destructive process(s) operating in nature as well.

 

[billslugg]

The problem with lab reproduction is the small scale. The early Earth's oceans were vast and 750 million years could be allotted to it.

 

[rod]

The problem with lab reproduction is the small scale. The early Earth's oceans were vast and 750 million years could be allotted to it.

billslugg, if the 4.28 Gyr micoorganism fossils are dated correctly, you do not have 750 million years but a very much short time span filled with solar system catastrophism. This story of creation is just that a story. Tossing out experiment verification in the lab, something I do not accept. Abiogenesis lab workers do experiment but continue to fail to create a single, living cell that reproduces.

 

[billslugg]

Yes, if life started at 4.28Bya then there was only 120 million years for it to develop, at most. Is this enough time? I don't know. But it is a factor of 10 million times longer than we have been trying it. Lots of room to accommodate catastrophism.
How many liters are being devoted to it? A thousand? That is a factor of 10^20 less volume than the oceans are now.
Thus we need to repeat our lab experiments around 10^27 times before we can conclude it does not work.

 

[rod]

Yes, if life started at 4.28Bya then there was only 120 million years for it to develop, at most. Is this enough time? I don't know. But it is a factor of 10 million times longer than we have been trying it. Lots of room to accommodate catastrophism.
How many liters are being devoted to it? A thousand? That is a factor of 10^20 less volume than the oceans are now.
Thus we need to repeat our lab experiments around 10^27 times before we can conclude it does not work.

billslugg, 10^27 lab experiments to consider possible scientific falsification for abiogenesis, that is a very flexible number here Using 13.8 billion years for the age of the universe since the postulated BB event, we have 4.351968E+17 seconds. I recommend folks test and experiment, very fast now

 

[Unclear Engineer]

In addition to the U-238 and U-235, there is also radioactive Thorium 232 still around that was in greater concentrations 4 billion years ago (14-billion year half life). And, there may well have been more isotopes that are completely gone, or almost so, by now, such as PU-244. We really don't know how much of various radioactive materials were created by supernovas to seed our solar nebula/planet forming disk and what their abundances were 4.3 billion years ago.

Also, there is no reason to assume that all the local concentrations on Earth were near the average value for the crust. Uranium accumulated in Oklo, probably in a wet environment, to a sufficient degree to create a "natural reactor" where fissions induced more fissions, but at a "subcritical" level that didn't "run away" in an exponential manner.

So, speculation about radiation dose rates "where life formed" seem highly subjective and uncertain.

One thing that seems to be certain is that the bacteria that we find today living miles below Earth's surface get their energy from the chemicals that are formed by the ionizing radiation from radioactive materials striking other local materials, creating a chemical energy source for those bacteria to feed on. So, life may well have initiated under ground, where pressures and temperatures are higher than on the surface. Instead of a "warm little pond" on the surface, life might have originated in the underground cavities at the bases of mud volcanoes. Or not. But, if so, it would not require cosmic rays or a hot sun, or even an atmosphere of a particular composition.

Even if we do eventually succeed in a lab with making self-replicating chemicals that seem to have the ability to evolve, that does not necessarily mean that it happened the same way on Earth 4.something billion years ago.

 

[Harry Costas]

The age of the Earth is directly related to the last time our Sun released its solar envelope.

Possibly 7 billion years ago

Forming our solar system in CHAOS, add to it several passing through Nebulae.

Given enough time to cool and for water to run, erode rocks and form sedimentary rocks, entrapping whatever.

Look at Venus, unable to cool, wrong position.

Thats my opinion

 

[rod]

Deep biosphere - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting report on deep biosphere life. "It includes all three domains of life and the genetic diversity rivals that on the surface."

"One thing that seems to be certain is...", using the language of Unclear Engineer in post #20. life comes from life the law of biogenesis is clearly seen operating in nature here on Earth today. That is as verifiable as looking at the Galilean moons more than 400 years after Galileo first reported seeing them in his tiny telescope, I have conducted this experiment too using my telescopes . I feel a database tracking all these abiogenesis claims and methods needs to be shown the public, clearly like the exoplanet sites do. Too many options IMO used, including some who suggest we cannot falsify the paradigm of abiogenesis until 10^27 experiments conducted

 

[rod]

FYI, here is an example on the forums about abiogenesis. Need a good database tracking all the abiogenesis work now showing where they created a single cell life that can continue to evolve (become increasingly more complex in 3D form and more cells) as well as show all the experiments that failed.

Abiogenesis - Science or Faith, https://forums.space.com/threads/abiogenesis-science-or-faith.32185/

 

[rod]

Another interesting report on abiogenesis, Could there be a form of life inside stars?, https://phys.org/news/2020-09-life-stars.html

Can Self-Replicating Species Flourish in the Interior of a Star?, https://osf.io/j6gux/, "Can Self-replicating Species Flourish in the Interior of a Star? Luis A. Anchordoqui and Eugene M. Chudnovsky Physics Department, Herbert H. Lehman College and Graduate School, The City University of New York 250 Bedford Park Boulevard West, Bronx, New York 10468-1589, USA(Dated: June 2020) The existing view of biological life is that it evolves under suitable conditions in the low-temperature world of atoms and molecules on the surface of a planet. It is believed that any plausible extraterrestrialform of life must resemble the life on Earth that is ruled by biochemistry of nucleic acids, proteins,and sugars. Going against this dogma, we argue that an advanced form of life based upon short-livedspecies can exist inside main-sequence stars like our Sun."

There are many models for abiogenesis now, need to show and tell all here.

 

[Unclear Engineer]

i doubt we are going to make significant progress on resolving this mystery until we have had the opportunity to thoroughly explore Mars and maybe a gas giant's moon for the presence of life forms.