Mining Saturns Rings or Enceladus's ice plume for fuel?

[NadeyMan]

Hi folks,

Virgin post. Love this site i'm on here every day reading all the interesting articles... Thought I'd join in with some ideas of my own

I've read up on mining resources in space and everything suggests that we'd need a rather sophisticated low gravity method of grinding up an astoroid or comet to get the sweet sweet nector inside

Enceladus seems to spew what we think (or know?) is water ice high enough into an orbit that Cassini can fly through and sample the material...
Why couldn't we send a dustbuster-style probe to fly out there and gobble up the pre-made ice rubble for return to LEO storage and processing? I have no idea how fine/course this material is, but it would surely be easier than sending advanced robotics or astronaughts to an astoroid to mill our own?

Thoughts?

NM

 

[nimbus]

$$ of the to and fro means ROI is too far in the future. I might be wrong, but that's what I've gathered from everything I've read.
Common saying is that even if the Moon had pure gold mines, it wouldn't be worth the cost of getting to it and bringing it back.

Enablers that I've seen: propulsion tech like Mach-Lorentz thrusters or fusion power (e.g. Polywell), but those and all other game-changing enablers are fourth horizon or way further.
Otherwise it's a long stretch of tech progress to cheap access to orbit, the single biggest bottleneck to the kind of space activity you're thinking of.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Nimbus is right, it's just too expensive at this time with the current tech. Not too long ago I ran the numbers (fast & dirty :ugeek: ) & to mine Platinum on Selene & return it to the Earths surface, & it would be in the $6000 per gram range. And that took a couple big assumptions on the availability of Platinum in the Lunar Regolith.
Until we have an infrastructure in LEO activities in space will always be too expensive.
The only activity that can be initiated with a "damned the cost" belief is the colonization of Mars. Once we have a destination that requires regular transport to & from we will have enough reason to construct that permanent infrastructure needed to allow the utilization of the rest of the Solar System.
We need that first Colony in our lifetime!!!

 

[NadeyMan]

Thanks couple of very good points. I agree we're not anywhere close to having the kind of technology and in-space infrastructure to make this cost effective... But it will come in time. Look at how much is being poured into the private sector right now because of the regular supply needs of the ISS. This will be perfected and in time access to these remote areas will become faster and cheaper (look at the electronics industry for example)...
This was really only a possible alternative to the enormous challenge and potential risk involved in mining something in zero G.
Somebody private like BHP should already be investing heavily in research into this... The 'how do we get there and back' will come on it's own anyway because it will be required for all future space activity, but who is actually investigating the 'how can we safely and reliably extract these minerals in such conditions'? Such knowledge would be an ace in the hole for business when the tech finally catches up, and when it does, perhaps letting nature do most of the hard work for us would be an easier option?

 

[HopDavid]

Hi folks,

Virgin post. Love this site i'm on here every day reading all the interesting articles... Thought I'd join in with some ideas of my own

Welcome!

I've read up on mining resources in space and everything suggests that we'd need a rather sophisticated low gravity method of grinding up an astoroid or comet to get the sweet sweet nector inside

Enceladus seems to spew what we think (or know?) is water ice high enough into an orbit that Cassini can fly through and sample the material...
Why couldn't we send a dustbuster-style probe to fly out there and gobble up the pre-made ice rubble for return to LEO storage and processing? I have no idea how fine/course this material is, but it would surely be easier than sending advanced robotics or astronaughts to an astoroid to mill our own?

Thoughts?

NM

From LEO, delta V needed for Trans Saturn Insertion is 7.3 km/sec. Matching orbits with Enceladus is another 8.7 km/sec for a total Delta V budget of 16 km/sec

For propellent sources, you'd need locations closer to LEO in terms of delta V.

 

[NadeyMan]

Passing comets could leave a trail of ice debrit... Perhaps this could be a closer target for a 'shadow and scoop' mission? Chances of one passing close enough and being made of the right material though might be pushing our luck a bit...

 

[sftommy]

I too had looked at the chemical makeup of the stream of particles from Enceladus, it being the easiest gravity well to pull water from. It will be mined one day, as will the rings, but I think it will be used to support human activities in the Saturnian system once we've begun to establish a long term human presence there.

Seems most mining opportunities will give their return in supporting ventures in space not by making anything cheaper for those who remain on earth.

 

[kelvinzero]

Yes I strongly agree with sftommy, even though I cannot pronounce sftommy.

These resources will be useful, but for future people who actually live and work there.

Some nearer to earth sources:

• Skimming from earth's upper atmosphere (and recovering momentum via some means that is more efficient than chemical boosters)
• Lunar water. We really have to at least get a look at that!
• Lunar oxygen. Even if lunar water were not exploitable, oxygen is most of the mass of water.
• Phobos: Some speculation there is significant water in this martian moon.
• Ceres (and asteroids in similar orbits). This world is expected to have vast quantities of water. Despite being much much closer than jupiter, let alone saturn, we have barely even seen this world yet.

Even in the case of the moon, I expect the real use of the resources will be to help make bases there self sufficient.