modular launcher with parts commonality

[spacefire]

How feasible would it be to make an expendable-expandable launcher from a bunch of similar rockets?<br />That way, you could mass produce these engines and drive the cost down.<br />A couple of issues:<br />Since all stages would have the same engines, their performance would be ideal for just one altitude, but, then again, the Shuttle flies on the same engines from Earth to Orbit.<br />Also, the supporting structure might be bulkier than in the case of an inline rocket.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[tap_sa]

Where is the lifting body? If there isn't a lifting body somewhere in these plans they are infeasible!

 

[spacefire]

the lifting body could be at the top <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <br /><br /><br />but I'm not <b>obsessed</b> with lifting bodies...I just want CATS. meow <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[yummylicious2323]

This concept sounds very similar to OTRAG<br />http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/otrag.htm

 

[spacefire]

from skimming through the article, it seems the concept is sound <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[darkenfast]

The concept has been tried a lot actually, just not in a complete fashion. The Saturn I and IB clustered Redstone and Juno (I think) fuselages in the first stage, although the engines were mounted seperately. Of course, the Delta IV is the most obvious current example.<br />Any time you cluster, you pay a significant weight penalty over a larger single structure. The reason to do it is if you either have a really good rocket and can't afford to design and build a larger, or for technical reasons can't build larger. The second reason affected the Soviet program. When they started working on the larger engines that were essential to their first ICBM (which is still the first and core stages of the Soyuz), they couldn't solve some of the problems with burning Kerosene and LOX in larger nozzles. So they clustered four nozzles together in each engine and never looked back! That's why the back end of the old "Semyorka" looks like a toy rocket; there's five of those engines, plus verniers (another older feature you don't see any more, like the old Atlas). The Proton rocket uses a type of clustering more like the Saturn I/IB, with the engines mounted seperately (those are not strap-on boosters surrounding a core). This was done because anything shipped to the launch site had to be brought in by rail. <br />Anyway, the idea of total clustering; i.e. mass-producing one rocket, and maybe just changing nozzles for altitude, as you said, is definitely do-able. I think Falcon is planning something like that. While it may not be as efficient, it could pay off, if the production process could be made less costly (trade efficiency in the factory for efficency in flight).

 

[syndroma]

Sounds similar to Angara family.<br />Angara-5 consists of 5 URMs (universal rocket module). Each URM is estimated to cost $5mil.<br />http://www.khrunichev.ru/khrunichev/upload/images/angara%5Fsem%2Ejpg

 

[spacefire]

yes, pretty close, although I was suggestibng that the second and third stage of this launcher be also made up from similar modules as the first stage. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[7419]

There was some speculation that the Concolese Civil War centered in Katanga in the '70s was actually the first "Space War" as its main goal was the elimination of ORTAG

 

[spacefire]

very sad story.It seems that the hurdles for space exploration are not technical, nor financial! <br />I want to see this project resurrected. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[tap_sa]

Microcosm is/was working on simple modular pressure fed system too (Scorpius family). Musk hired their chief scientist so pace has slowed down towards back burner mode.

 

[yummylicious2323]

quoted from article: <br />"Kayser finally gave up trying to keep the program going in the face of such political pressure. After spending $200 million, OTRAG was shut down in 1987.<br /><br />As of 2005, Kayser was actively searching for partners to fund an OTRAG-type production facility in the United States and to apply his unique low-cost technology to the requirements of the future American space program. He founded von Braun Debus Kayser Rocket Science LLC to transfer OTRAG's intellectual property and know-how to the United States. Kayser, along with newer private entrepreneurs such as Musk, Rutan, and Bezos, still dreams of achieving the goal of affordable space transport below $ 1,000 per pound into orbit."<br /><br />So Kayser's still alive and kicking.<br /><br />Some old graphics<br />http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/z/zotrstg.jpg<br />http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/o/otrag10k.jpg<br />http://www.astronautix.com/graphics/o/otragwor.jpg

 

[yummylicious2323]

Bolockmart rockets are brutal.<br />SpaceX's falcon series is kinda cute.<br />OTRAG is ugly personified.

 

[spacefire]

let me win the lottery and I'll buy OTRAG <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>http://asteroid-invasion.blogspot.com</p><p>http://www.solvengineer.com/asteroid-invasion.html </p><p> </p> </div>

 

[scottb50]

I've long proposed a Modular system with the same basic design used repeatedly. Different size Modules would be used for different requirements, but they would be identical in configuration and adaptable with other Modules. Various Modules attach to one another and can be configured as needed.<br /><br />Add a Shuttle nozzle to a Module and insert segmented propellant refills to build an SRB, or mount an SSME on a two Module liquid propellant stack. Use the same Modules for the second stage propellant tanks and the payload container, then, use those Modules to build and expand Stations and Vehicles in LEO, and beyond.<br /><br />The cost of Modules should be extremely reasonable and since a Module can be built in any size required it could find unlimited uses in everyday items. Ball point pen size, High pressure Hydrogen refills for fuel cell powered laptop computers come to mind. High strength, light weight, replacements for metal hydraulic cylinders would be another area. Modules could be built in an infinite number of sizes as needed.<br /><br />The Launcher would release the Second Stage and return for re-use, Second stage Modules would be converted in orbit for other uses and second stage engines returned as cargo in return vehicles launched as payload.<br /><br />The primary Modules used in the launch and LEO system would use 15 foot diameter X 30 foot long Segments connected to one another over single piece composite tubes. An SRB housing would use 4 Segments. A liquid Module would use two Segments as a Hydrogen tank and one as an Oxygen tank.<br /><br />Transfer Vehicles, that cycle back and forth to the Moon and Mars as well as surface Stations, would use 30x30 foot Segments with a 15x60 Module inside water would fill the larger Module to provide protection for crew and passengers. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>