Question Moon atmosphere

[Mental Avenger]

Both the Moon and Mars have solidified interiors-dramatically reducing their extended force fields compared to the much greater Earths.

The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality.

 

[David777]

Not according to measurements. Different names (magnetic field, gravity-although more of a result, pressure gradient, etc.) and you are in ... The weather or air molecules seem to be responding to it as does my compass, the Aurora Borealis, NASA launch vehicles, soft balls, baseballs, etc. ,etc. although some are in the more immediate force field and not the extended. Nasa and many other sites have info. Have a great day.

 

[Catastrophe]

Hi folks! There is a connection with this topic, be it a little abstruse.

Is anyone familiar with the works of J W Dunne? I am not saying I agree or disagree with (all of) it.

Best wishes for interesting discussions.

Cat

An Experiment with Time is a book by the British soldier, aeronautical engineer and philosopher J. W. Dunne about his precognitive dreams and a theory of time which he later called "Serialism". First published in March 1927, the book was widely read. Although never accepted by mainstream science, it has influenced imaginative literature ever since. Dunne published four sequels: The Serial Universe, The New Immortality, Nothing Dies and Intrusions?

P.S. if this aspect grows, we should start a new thread called... ?

 

[Mental Avenger]

Hi folks! There is a connection with this topic, be it a little abstruse.

That is totally off topic in a scientific discussion regarding atmosphere on the Moon.

 

[Catastrophe]

Mental Avenger



I hope you know me to be a very peaceable person who would never wish to cause anyone any inconvenience.

By the same token I always try to be fair in all my dealings.

For that reason I wish to point out that descriptions sometimes have more than one context.

Force field (chemistry) - Wikipedia

Force field (chemistry) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In the context of molecular modelling, a force field (a special case of energy functions or interatomic potentials; not to be confused with force field in classical physics) refers to the functional form and parameter sets used to calculate the potential energy of a system of atoms or coarse-grained particles in molecular mechanics and molecular dynamics simulations.

Force field (fiction), a barrier made up of energy, plasma or particles to protect a person, area or object from attacks or intrusions or as a means of containment or confinement Force field (physics), a vector field indicating the forces exerted by one object on another

Gravitational forces - Astronomy and space science - KS3 ...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z8wx6sg/revision/3

An object's mass stays the same wherever it is. So a 5 kg mass on Earth has a 5 kg mass on the Moon. The force of gravity. Gravity is a force that attracts …

Image: aplusphysics.com

A gravitational field is a region in which a mass experiences a force due to gravitational attraction. A gravitational field is a region of space surrounding a body that has the property of mass. Dec 22 2015

Gravitational field & Gravitational field streng…
www.miniphysics.com/gravitational-field.html

Some of the bold’s are mine.

As someone who also has a degree in science, I am sure you will recall electrical force fields, electromagnetic force fields, forces exerted in a gravitational field, and so on.

For Earth's gravity field, see Gravity of Earth. In physics, a gravitational field is a model used to explain the influence that a massive body extends into the space around itself, producing a force on another massive body.

"The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality."

I was responding to this.

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

Well, I live and learn. Even at the age of 80.

Here is another one I never knew about:

"Force Field Analysis helps you to think about the pressures for and against a decision or a change. It was developed by Kurt Lewin. To carry out a Force Field Analysis, describe your plan or proposal in the middle of a piece of paper or whiteboard."

Cat

 

[David777]

Maybe just pressure gradient variations relative to velocity, string oscillation, zero quantum excitation that coalesces into matter with mass and mass effect having fairly static identifiable characteristics. Inflation /deflation. high pressure/low pressure slightly variable balance correlated with significant local mass.

 

[Mental Avenger]

I hope you know me to be a very peaceable person who would never wish to cause anyone any inconvenience.

I always appreciate someone who takes the time to do critical research on issues, even seemingly small ones.

For that reason I wish to point out that descriptions sometimes have more than one context.

I understand context. That is why, IMO, it is important to keep things in context with a subject under discussion. In this case, it is the magnetosphere that deflects the Solar Wind that strips away the upper atmosphere. It is only the magnetosphere, and not some ambiguous “force field”. As I am sure you are aware, Scientists and science enthusiasts use the best terminology for a given issue, not ambiguous, nebulous, or other terminology that could be misconstrued. That is because they understand that science requires exactitude of meaning to be clear and comprehensible.
Also, stringing together a variety of irrelevant adjectives and barely related “scientific” terminology is contrary to an understandable and productive discussion.

As someone who also has a degree in science, I am sure you will recall electrical force fields, electromagnetic force fields, forces exerted in a gravitational field, and so on.

Rarely have scientific discussions used “force field” to describe a force. Virtually always the terminology is specific, i.e. magnetic lines of force, magnetosphere, electromagnetic field, gravitational force, applied force, and of course the strong and weak fundamental forces. “force field” is almost completely relegated to SciFi, where it belongs.

"The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality." I was responding to this.

I understand, and I appreciate your informative references.

 

[Catastrophe]

Without repeating myself in full, I would respectfully draw your attention to the above "force field (chemistry)" and "force field (physics)" which seem at variance with any suggestion to the contrary.

Finally:
"In physics a force field is a vector field that describes a non-contact force acting on a particle at various positions in space. Specifically, a force field is a vector field, where is the force that a particle would feel if it were at the point." Wiki.

I can understand your apparent wish to stress a certain connotation of "force field" which, as pointed out above, has different meanings.
I am not arguing with the fact that there are different meanings. I am pointing out that there are equally (if not more) "respectable" meanings.

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

May I also please point out that there is a difference between:

Catastrophe said
"The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality." I was responding to this.

and
what I actually wrote, which was:

"The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality."

I was responding to this.

in response to your words replying to David777.

"The Earth does not have a force field. That is a science fiction creation which does not exist in reality. were not my words.

 

[Catastrophe]

Craftsman X

"My question I suppose would be in the category of terraforming. Would it ever be possible - if only in theory, to provide the moon with an (albeit temporary) atmosphere.?"

In theory - yes.
Albeit temporary - yes
For 5 seconds - yes
For 5 years -no
At prohibitive cost - yes
Irrespective of all practical considerations - yes

So, the artificial introduction of Nitrogen and oxygen etc,
Even given that the reduced gravity in comparison to earth would not sustain it, is it not possible?
(putting aside money, and physical constraints)

Putting aside all cost and physical constraints - yes
Please do not lightly dismiss ;artificial introduction of Nitrogen and Oxygen etc..
How would you obtain them, transport them, etc?

Is it that it would just float away into space?
Yes.

I hope you will find that a straight answer to a straight question.
If you consider something totally impossible and impractical - yes.

Best wishes,

Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

Sounds like you might be catching up. Again, have you lived under the stars for the last 80 years?

Yes. "The Sun in the morning and the Moon at night" as the song goes.
Yes. 80 (81 in April) years of living under the stars by night and the Sun by day.
Since I retired I have spent my leisure time studying Cosmology, Astronomy and Geology.
In fact, everything I can find out about the Universe(s) from 'before' the big bang to formation of the heavy elements and the resulting 'geo'logy. I have a B.Sc. in Chemical Engineering since about 55 years ago.

A fresh approach might be enlightening.

Eric (if you prefer a real name).

 

[David777]

That's great, Eric. You were in a pod a great part of the time If I weren't in my pod(house) at this moment my environment would be sub freezing. That's intolerable without some type of immediate environmental correction. Without some form of travel "pod" I could not travel 60-75 mph esp in more extreme environmental conditions. Still couldn't without drastically changing the "terra in" with asphalt and concrete to extensively reform the environment. Underwater and on water requires even greater reformation and system development. These systems to transform and for transformation may be enhanced, i.e. recirculating,, alternative energy, improved sealing systems. Whole multiple industrial applications. Economics?? Should have been on Mars a decade or more ago with extensive robotics. Some version of those shuttles making the trips instead of photo ops.

 

[Catastrophe]

Hi David.

Sounds like an interesting environment. Are you one of those brave Antarctic residents?

 

[David777]

My son is a ChemE currently in Clayton, NC on $2,000,000,000 construction project, largest in the state's history. Lead problem solver on 2 major lines, estimated 4 years to complete. Likes the difficult tasks. His lines are 1.5 months ahead. All others way behind. Working 12+ hr shifts this weekend. Not proud of him at all. My name is Jack(ie) valedictorian, magna cum laude, summa cum laude, 98th percentile quantitative analysis, 95th science on ACT, Presidential scholarship. 66 years young. Have developed no tolerance for waste. Seen way too much of it.

 

[David777]

No, Missouri. Better now than in past. I have decided I like climate change since it happens daily, monthly, yearly and has for some time. Don't like lower quantum energy sectors.

 

[Catastrophe]

No, Missouri. Better now than in past. I have decided I like climate change since it happens daily, monthly, yearly and has for some time. Don't like lower quantum energy sectors.

ACT sounds excellent. We don't have that here but I found the following:
"Your percentile ranking is a comparison of your ACT score with everyone else who took the test. Specifically, your percentile tells you how many people you scored equal to or higher than. "

I once spent several weeks at a time in Canada (Valleyfield near Montreal). Saw some snow there like we never get here. What happened to the Ice Age we were supposed to be entering? I thought a little global warming might help.

 

[Lutfij]

I've spent a considerable amount on deleting the content that didn't add anything of value to this discussion. All of you who have received a warning and subsequent temporary ban, you might want to watch how many times it's happened.

 

[Catastrophe]

From the very top:
"My question I suppose would be in the category of terraforming. Would it ever be possible - if only in theory, to provide the moon with an (albeit temporary) atmosphere.?"

In theory anything is possible. Yes, any atmosphere for the Moon would be temporary. It just does not have the gravity to hold an atmosphere.

The effort to terraform the Moon - for what purpose? - would be so much better spent elsewhere.
And what would be the purpose? Asteroids might equally threaten the Moon, and the expanding Sun would threaten both equally.

 

[David777]

Think of it as more limited like your own garden as a green house enhance. All kinds of potential benefits. Accommodations in structural habitat would be necessary much like here with improved controls because of the increased deficiencies. Act = American Colleges Testing for pre college class qualifications. From basic statistics percentile ranking indicates performance ranking from prior established test competence standards or conversely only 2% performed as well or better. On this test it translated to a Trigonometry question that I thought was debatable as to the correct answer. Also ranked 700+ on GRE quantitative section of pre graduate exam. The ACT and GRE were both nationally standardized exams. Retired at 45.

 

[egribble]

From the very top:
"My question I suppose would be in the category of terraforming. Would it ever be possible - if only in theory, to provide the moon with an (albeit temporary) atmosphere.?"

In theory anything is possible. Yes, any atmosphere for the Moon would be temporary. It just does not have the gravity to hold an atmosphere.

The effort to terraform the Moon - for what purpose? - would be so much better spent elsewhere.
And what would be the purpose? Asteroids might equally threaten the Moon, and the expanding Sun would threaten both equally.

Terraforming moon, if even possible would involve nuking limited materials such as water ice at poles. These materials would, I suspect, be better used as a direct mined resource.

 

[David777]

Think contained and limited extent but ever expanding. Try to limit segregated psychological functionality.

 

[Catastrophe]

Errrr . . . . . . . . . elucidate please.

Cat

 

[egribble]

Errrr . . . . . . . . . elucidate please.

Cat

Someone asked if it would be possible to terraform the moon (create an atmosphere by setting off a few nukes). My view is a suitable atmosphere could not be created and the resources on the moon would be better mined for rocket fuel etc. I think people are getting a bit carried away with this terraforming concept, I am dubious about whether or not it is possible on any planetary surface. Anyway let's get people back to the moon first. The moon did have a thin Mars like atmosphere a few billion years ago.

 

[Catastrophe]

You probably know my opinion (on known planets / moons and probably most unknown ones):

Colonising / mining = possibly Terraforming = never.