New approach to space travel

Page 2 - Seeking answers about space? Join the Space community: the premier source of space exploration, innovation, and astronomy news, chronicling (and celebrating) humanity's ongoing expansion across the final frontier.
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

firstgrip

Guest
I am very sure human lives can never survive the time traveling through different planets but the mind and soul can. I know of a Guru, the living Buddha who resides in Seattle, Raymond Temple, travels through time into the universe or heaven and hell in his deep meditation. He has written more than 200 books related to enlightenment and Buddhism and has more than 5 million students worldwide. Many of them are westerners.

I firmly believe training the mind unattached to the materialistic world is the most advance program in the universe. Hope one day I can travel through time and not be re-born again.
 
W

williammook

Guest
eburacum45":3vomjgsz said:
That's really nice; with a 1000 km diameter laser you could do a lot of really interesting things. Trouble is, you want to float these collectors on light pressure alone; this limits you to 0.78 grams of mass per square metre; a bit low.

And any light you use for power is not reflected, so can't be used to support the statite. These ultra lightweight light collectors/transmitters, so close to the star, would be affected by solar wind, which is variable and would mess up any collimation you tried to acheive. In short, statite power collection is going to be inefficient and present an unstable platform for focusing light beams.

Why not use more substantial, orbiting satellites; a few thousand or million solar satellites would soon add up to the area your scheme requires, and would be a more stable base for emitting collimated beams.

One scheme I have heard for converting light beams to particle beams is to use billions of tiny light sails which themselves impact the craft to transfer momentum. The tiny sails could even have a rudimentary steering mechanism so they consistently hit the target; this means the ship doesn't need hundreds of thousands of square kilometers of reflective sail, but a much smaller pusher plate or magnetic sail.


Its a matter of mass and effort. You are exchanging the mass of sails which may be reused, to the mass of intelligent particles which may not. What is the balance? I have looked at both and streams of small particles are interesting for interplanetary missions - especialliy if they may be reused. A system I call 'smart smoke' consists of collections of particles that act as emitters and reflectors to transfer momentum in a confined region. In many ways these are superior to macroscopic planes. A cellular approach also provides improved logistics and maintenance.

The size of the sail is a function of the size of the payload. A human being encased in a reflective suit need nothing larger than a parachute to sustain 1 gee of acceleration - as I mentioned elsewhere. Also, payloads accelerated by beam system AT the target star and AT the sun - need only project efficiently 0.054 lightyears - that's the distance a payload travels when accelerating to 1/3 light speed at 1 gee. So beams can be a bit tighter than shown here. Its only when you have a multi-staged sail system that you need to project the beam many light years.

Even so, the sun itself can act as a lens if you're greater than 660 AU from the sun. Some have proposed sensors at that distance to make pictures of remote star systems. Beaming energy to a satellite and then to remote star systems are also possble.

An orbiting cloud of free flying particles each with an active optical control system - can certainly be coordinated by a reference beam aboard the spacecraft. There are issues with delay and doppler effects to be worked out, but that appears possible.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2QAUkt2VPHI

At 1 AU solar light pressure is 4.54 e-6 pascal. Pressure from solar wind ranges from 2e-9 to 3e-9 pascal depending on orbital position. At 3 million km this is 2500x greater. At 1 million km 22,500x greater

At 3 million km radius; 0.011325 Pa
At 1 million km radius 0.101925 Pa

Approximately 1 gram and 10 grams per sq km of force.

But because the acceleration varies with the square of the distance just like light, we have

At 3 million km radius acceleration is 1.50 gees
At 1 million km radius acceleration is 13.54 gees

That means your 0.78 grams per square meter is correct regardless of distance.

I mention this because some references (Wikipedia) speaks of diving into the sun to gain advantage.

A PV cell that is 50% efficient and has a reflecting optical bandpass filter can lift only 0.39 grams per square meter. The balance is absorbed, and then re-emitted, but it is emitted at far longer wavelengths. This transfers a net momentum equal to about 0.11 grams - for a total of 0.50 grams - no matter where we are - per square meter. A square cm masses 0.5 milligrams - 500 micrograms. - a device density of 2.5 grams per cubic centimeter means 2,500,000 micrograms per cubic centimeter. 1 mm thick layer reduces this sq cm to 250,000 micrograms. A 1 micron thick laer falls to 250 micrograms.

So we have a MEMS device made of a silicon like substance 1 cm on a side and 1.5 microns thick. It is highly relfective on one side, and capable of free flight. That's about 15,000 atoms thick - about a trillion atoms overall.

The device can accelerate away from the sun, and by turning its edge to the sun fall, and by angling its orientation to the sun, speed up or slow down along its orbit. One side is equipped with an optical bandpass filter that reflects light - and is highly controllable in its propulsive effects. The back side is equipped with a nonlinear optical window and laser setup that efficiently produces laser beams. It can also recieve and detect laser beams.

These devices are produced in a factory and ejected in an electromagnetic launcher into space. Early systems are built on Earth, later systems are built on asteroids between Mars and Jupiter. Once free flying in space they use sunlight and laser beams to navigate. They also communicate via laser beam. Since the same system that allows control of the laser beam and light reflections also segment the light across the device This allows the PV array to act as a camera system if necessary and modulation of the dwell point of the beam steering device modulates the beam to transmit information. Modulation of the reference beam sends control signals.

Orbiting cells do not have to touch to operate as the same optical emitter. A reference source coordinates the free flying system.

The light sail too can be a cloud of material ejected by the starship. Providing it is recycled back to the starship. A beam intercepts the cloud - which changes its momentum. The devices fly toward a thrust surface, and transfer momentum to that thrust surface - ejecting the particles back into the cloud that intercepts the beam. This great simplifies deployment - and reduces mass of the sail.
 
W

williammook

Guest
firstgrip":344lypwj said:
I am very sure human lives can never survive the time traveling through different planets but the mind and soul can. I know of a Guru, the living Buddha who resides in Seattle, Raymond Temple, travels through time into the universe or heaven and hell in his deep meditation. He has written more than 200 books related to enlightenment and Buddhism and has more than 5 million students worldwide. Many of them are westerners.

I firmly believe training the mind unattached to the materialistic world is the most advance program in the universe. Hope one day I can travel through time and not be re-born again.


This reminds me of what they used to say about train travel. The human body could never stand the speed. Or what they said about air travel and baloon travel. The human body could never stand the height (on that one they were right, we need pressurized cabins) Or what they said about travel to the moon. The human body could never stand it.

The same laws of nature that operate here, operate throughout the cosmos. This is a transcendant truth well worth remembering. So, even us mundane materialistic types can dream about going to distant places and doing great things and no because of this deep underlying truth - we can make good on those dreams in ways idle dreamers cannot.

Now it is true that our minds deal with ideas only. I do not think about a flower, but my idea and conception of a flower. I do not feel anything about my wife, but the idea I hold about my wife. Nothing in the universe exists in our minds except as ideas. We cannot know the thing itself - only our conception of that thing. This too is an important insight. Because as our understanding and sensibility of the world changes, so too do our ideas - and with it other changes that transcend all occur. I might think of myself as an unlikable sort and interpret everything that happens has happened and will happen in that context. But, if I change that idea about myself - say that I'm a likeable guy - then everything canges - my whole universe is transformed.

This is an important aspect of science. Because science informs us truly about the world. It changes our conception of the world and of ourselves. It kills the old Gods and establishes new in light of transcendant knowledge.

Fabulous stuff.

Now, we certainly can imagine a thing in great detail. Virtual reality and numerical modelling are based on this idea. That detailed model may even be inspected and analysed to train us, edcuate us, and make things easier for us to do in reality. Since our minds deal with ideas, these imaginings can even give us the same sense of accomplishment and inner knowing that actually doing the thing entails.

In these was, dreaming of a thing can change us and change our world.

There are even certain quantum events - like Young's Double Slit Experiment, or Einstein Podolsky Rozen experiment - especially ones that involve delayed choice, that behave in ways some scientists call 'spooky' Why? Because they seem to defy common sense. How we CHOOSE to observe a thing controls WHAT we observe. Our minds in this very limited way and in this limited context seem to be able to control reality. How can that be? No one knows. That doesn't mean all the claims you make are true, it just means there might be something to it. All the particles in the universe are entangled by the big bang, os it may very well be possible somehow to dream of a time and place far removed from here and have it correspond precisely to that remote time and place. The only way to know for sure is to do an experiment - observe a time and space and have an adept dream about it and compare notes - not just once but hndreds of times. The CIA has supported this sort of experiment - and those who carried it out have written about it. It seems that this sort of thing is possible. If so, how it works is a mystery to present science as are a number of other things like Young's double slit experiment.

the most important thing you said in your statement is 'I hope' and 'I believe' - this is a good thing, you know the difference between hope and reality. I may hope and believe in my success. This alone doesn't make me successful.
 
E

eburacum45

Guest
This system, and variations of it, are perhaps the best way of travelling between the stars that I've heard of; of course, other people have realised this too. I would expect that any intelligent civilisation might also realise the attractions of such a system at some point in their development, and start building sun-powered starships to expand into the universe.

And yet they are not here. Why might this be?

One reason was suggested by James Nicoll a few years ago. He realised that an array of solar emitter satellites could also be used as a weapon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicoll-Dys ... yson_Laser
With such a large aperture, a Nicoll-Dyson laser could destroy the biosphere of a planet hundreds of light years away.
Even with the smaller arrays you have described severe damage could be caused to any habitable location within a very large radius.

This is a possible solution to the Fermi Paradox; an intelligent civilisation builds solar emitter arrays, colonises the nearby stars, and builds more such arrays around those stars. Because the colonies are separated by years of light speed delay, they can never communicate in real time; even if they were an optimistic species before this wave of colonisation, they now become paranoid, as they can never know if one or another of the distant colonies has fired a world-killer beam at them in the recent past. A recipe for paranoia.

After a while one of the colonies decide to stage a pre-emptive strike, and the interstellar empire dissolves in a paroxysm of revenge attacks. Beams from intact emitter swarms pass each other in interstellar space and vapourise the last remaining civilisation.

This is why we don't see interstellar civilisations in our skies. I've made an image of a Nicoll-Dyson beam here;
http://eg.orionsarm.com/xcms.php?r=oaeg ... e49fe47202
of course you don't need a whole dyson swarm to cause mayhem which solar emitter arrays, but it helps...
 
K

kelvinzero

Guest
Hi eburacum45,

That could be an argument why the centres of colonized regions become decimated by war, but I think it would only encourage expanding as fast as possible on the borders. And the dead internal worlds would keep getting recolonized by races that fell a little behind and could not move outwards without moving into well defended worlds. This assumes that the results of war leave anything left to recolonize.
 
K

kelvinzero

Guest
Hi williammook,

Your posts are really to long to deal with properly so apologies for dealing with only one point.

I dont think humans inherently consume any mass, except of course to grow in numbers. All that is needed is constant power, such as sunlight.

The earth itself is an example of life functioning essentially in equilibrium for hundreds of millions of years.

Superficially we do consume unrenewable resources such as oil, and we mine materials such as copper that will be much harder to require later, but all these unrenewable approaches can and inevitably will be replaced with less cost-efficient but renewable ones that will still be perfectly competitive when the easy options are used up.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.