new lunar lander

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holmec

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What do we know about the new lunar lander?<br /><br />All I know is that its to take down 4 astronauts to the moon and that some of its left over parts, after astronauts are gone, can be used (somehow) for a base.<br /><br />Anyone else have info?? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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Hmmm...not much on it. Where did you get the data??? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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mattblack

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Well, to be honest, much is gleaned from reading the Boeing, Lockheed/Martin and Northrop/Grumman trade studies final documents and taking educated guesses, extrapolated up from Apollo designs.<br /><br />That post was started by me to see if all the smart and in-the-know people on this forum could correct me on my estimates, and discuss what the real masses and propulsion choices might be for these spacecraft and boosters.<br /><br />For example, I've postulated that the lunar lander might have a launch weight of 30 tons; nearly twice that of the Apollo LM. I've expected someone to say; you're wrong -- the Lunar Lander would weigh 25, 35 or even 40 tons. But NO ONE has responded to my post to kick off this potentially fascinating nuts-and-bolts discussion.<br /><br />I'm disappointed to say the least! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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holmec

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Well, I was kinda looking for more of a funtionality perspective. Nuts and bolts are fine. But the reason behind the nuts and bolts are what interest me.<br /><br />For example in the following article:<br />http://www.nasa.gov/missions/solarsystem/cev.html<br />It says that NASA intends on taking cargo down to the moon for a base. And it seems to imply that several missions will land at the same base.<br /><br />It also says that the lander will be the home of the astornauts for 7 days. That is quite a bit more requirements than a couple of hours on the moon surface.<br />I mean you need a bathroom, or else youll be peeing in your pants for 7 days. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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mattblack

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>>I mean you need a bathroom<<<br /><br />True enough! I imagine they have a little toilet a bit like the Shuttle. But of course even this larger LM would need to keep it's weight down. In 1969 they didn't have carbon-fiber, aluminiun/lithium and a bunch of other alloys and composites. Although the basic mission says the'll require a crew of 4 supported for 7 days, I strongly suspect that they'll build in more consumables in case of an Apollo 13-type lifeboat situation. Also, the new lander would have to have a stronger and more radiation-resistant cabin than Apollo.<br /><br />As for what they'll do on the Moon? Well, if we can live on the Moon, we should be able to live anywhere. The Moon is a "continent in the sky" or even a planet in it's own right. Any planetary scientist, even ones who aren't enamoured with the Moon will tell you that a lot of science can be done there. Also, the Apollo Astronauts explored but a tiny fraction of the Moon's millions of square kms of land. I highly recommend these three books:<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1894959108/qid=1128663780/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-9456548-2152137?v=glance&s=books<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008MNW1/qid=1128663818/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/102-9456548-2152137?v=glance&s=books<br /><br />http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1852335750/qid=1128663902/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-9456548-2152137?v=glance&s=books<br /><br />After reading them, I'll virtual <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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holmec

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wow, thanks.<br /><br />I'll look into the books. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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henryhallam

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<font color="yellow"><br /> I imagine they have a little toilet a bit like the Shuttle.<br /></font><br />At least you have the benefit of gravity to so that awful vacuum machine thing isn't necessary. I'm sure anything would be an improvement on Apollo in that "area".
 
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mattblack

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In the CEV during zero G they'd probably use an Apollo-type plastic bag arrangement. Eeeuuww!! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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nacnud

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<font color="yellow">I mean you need a bathroom, or else youll be peeing in your pants for 7 days.<br /><br /><font color="white">And? whats wrong with that?<br /><br />OK could cause problem if you intend on staying long term but on a multi hour moon walks what other options are there? People to it every day, single person dinghy meets when your on the water for six hours plus, etc. Solids are more a worry but liquids are sterile if smelly. Just one of the things that the new moon suit will have to cope with.</font></font>
 
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mattblack

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>>No, the Shuttle Orbiter has a zero Gee tolet as does the ISS. The CEV will as well. With the baggies as a back-up.<<<br /><br />Oh good! All the more reason to want to fly on that thing. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p>One Percent of Federal Funding For Space: America <strong><em><u>CAN</u></em></strong> Afford it!!  LEO is a <strong><em>Prison</em></strong> -- It's time for a <em><strong>JAILBREAK</strong></em>!!</p> </div>
 
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propforce

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How does a zero-G toilet work? Vacuum pump? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>
 
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holmec

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Nice. Good to know Shuttle_guy. Thanks for confirming that. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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Well I hope so too. I mean someone has to reuse those clunky heavy underpowered sixties era computers. LOL. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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holmec

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Also what are they going to do with their trash?? Tie it up to the lander struts?? Or take it with them. Some enviromental issues take place here. Lets face it, the lander is like a camper and the astronauts will camp on the moon for 7 days. I hope they bring some s'mores. <br /><br />If I were them, I'd keep a set of golf clubs on the moon. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>
 
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