New Lunar outpost slides/charts shown on NASA TV!!

[dreada5]

Hi<br /><br />Does anyone have or know where to find (perhaps on nasa.gov) the slides/charts that where shown in the recent (Dec 4?) nasa press conference on nasa tv about the return to the moon.<br /><br />Scott Horowitz (sp?) and others conducted a presentation and briefly showed a chart with an outpost layout within a crater (with some of it apparently submerged under lunar soil I think). Looked very interesting... as in never seen before.

 

[MeteorWayne]

Maybe there's some in the Lunar thread just below.<br /><br />It's always worth looking before you ask <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[dreada5]

Some? I only saw one (which I saw before posting this) and its not that one... are there others?<br />

 

[dreada5]

Found it!! <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163896main_Exploration-LAT_Briefing_120406.pdf

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanx! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[hurricane4911]

Thank you!<br />Very impressive presentation.

 

[subzero788]

I missed the presentation so thanks for bringing it to my attention <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[radarredux]

I also thank you for the slides.<br /><br />I particularly like slide 17. It identifies what NASA plans to accomplish, which is realistically modest, and it identifies areas where other organizations can add value.<br /><br />I also like slide 15, which basically says that by 2025 we will have developed the key technologies, capabilities, and experience to go do lots of things.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Does anyone have or know where to find (perhaps on nasa.gov) the slides/charts that we shown in the recent (Dec 4?) nasa press conference on nasa tv about the return to the moon.</font>/i><br /><br />There is a lot more online. Start from the following link:<br />http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/mmb/why_moon.html<br /><br />There are short videos and a poster on this first page.<br /><br />From that first link you can reach the "'Why Moon' Objectives" page. It includes links to a large chart identifying all sorts of potential missions.<br />http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/mmb/why_moon_objectives.html<br /><br />There is also a schedule of the conference at:<br />http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/exploration/main/2nd_exploration_conf.html<br /></i>

 

[dreada5]

Yeah true. I searched all of that as soon as I saw the press conference on nasa tv, but didn't find that pdf presentation at first. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br />

 

[dreada5]

There doesn't seem to be any mention of utilising the lunar soil to provide protection from radiation/micrometeriods etc.<br /><br />Its obviously a big concern to NASA as they've spoken about it many times; whilst it wouldn't be expected on the first missions, surely later missions that seek to establish a base with hab modules should also work on burying the modules or covering them with lunar soil?<br /><br />http://us.cnn.com/2006/TECH/space/12/04/lunar.impacts/index.html

 

[docm]

That PDF mentions a regolith mover on page 17. Sounds ideal for the job. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[barrykirk]

Will it be called Moonbase Alpha? As in Moonbase Alpha<br />from Space 1999?

 

[dreada5]

Just came across this... same graphics, but annotated.<br /><br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/6210154.stm

 

[rocketman5000]

It appears that the hab modules will be inflatable modules. If these are similiar to Bigelow modules won't they be equipped with a layer of water??

 

[dreada5]

Maybe. Last I heard if Bigelow was successful with his full-scale modules, NASA would be *very* interested.

 

[docm]

Mentioned this in another thread, but did anyone watch the NASA TV webcast? Near the end NASA made it clear that private inflatables were definitely on the table for the moonbase. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[josh_simonson]

Man, that last image of Aries 1 and Aries V is all out of whack. It labels the 'departure stage' as being inside the shroud of the Aries V, and it looks like there are 2 more EDS between it and the Aries V corestage.

 

[dreada5]

But is it possible to cover/bury inflatables or I suppose if they have water jackets then that would protect visiting astronauts from radiation.<br /><br />Ideally, the best location for a moonbase seems to be underground (eg tunnelling into the side of a crater rim or hill). That would protect them from radiation as well probably meteriods.<br /><br />I'm not a tunnelling expert, but my idea would probably require drill/blast/melt several cubic meters of lunar soil/basalt out of the side of crater rim/hill and then thoroughly reinforcing the inner wall sides/roof. All of the habitat / laboratory modules can then be placed inside the tunnel (leaving most rovers, power/logistic modules outside). As such extensive solar arrays or nuclear power would need to be in place early to support the work.<br /><br />An underground base would protect astronauts from about all possible hazards from above (radiation / micrometeriods impacts etc). <br /><br />I also think this would add longevity/permanency to an outpost instead of NASA plonking down a string of fragile tin cans/inflatables entirely exposed to the hazards of space! <br /><br />Tunnelling adds some permanency to mankind's first outpost on another world. It'd provide a template/starting point for a larger lunar base / city.<br /><br />http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/LPSC98/pdf/1066.pdf<br /><br /><br /><br />Of course the other way is to build surface shelter out of lunar bricks/slabs. They'd have to be pretty thick though, possibly more work. But robots (telerobotics) should be able to do all of the hard work.<br />

 

[dreada5]

The following threads discuss the location of a lunar colony ie. underground/tunnels etc.<br /><br />http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=businesstech&Number=287639&page=4&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=0&fpart=all<br /><br />http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/moontunnel.html<br /><br />I think someone's post states that a 15-25km meteriod would punch a hole as deep as 10m!<br /><br />If we are going back to the moon to stay it seems logical that a base with an underground habitat is the way to go. I think NASA should integrate this approach into the plans/expenditure early.

 

[rocketman5000]

remember the first "permanent base" isn't really going to be all that permanent. It is for extended stays yes, but it probably will have a short lifespan like many spacecraft. Essentially it is a spacecraft parked on the ground rather than a building. <br /><br />The early lunar outposts will always have full evacuation capability for inhahitants. It isn't neccessary to be able to protect the base from impacts for crew survivability. When there is a lunar economy and industry it would be prudent to live underground. <br /><br />Also the best way to tunnel on the moon I would think would be a TBM (tunnel boring machine). The most famous use of this machine was in the Chunnel (Channel Tunnel) across the English Channel.

 

[dreada5]

Good point. Thanks for that rocketman5000.<br /><br />I was thinking that since the moon is going to be a permanent extension of mankind, it would make sense for one of the early outpost activities to be, not start full-scale construction of an underground lunar city <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" />, but to begin researching, experimenting with small-scale boring/tunneling out of the lunar soil at favourable "base" locations in preparation for something much more permanent. Drilling/boring will be very important to future manned martian mission.