New Moon "conspiracy." Lunar gravity is not 1/6th that of the Earth, but 64% and NASA is c

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wait till I make my next post over there and put a link to this thread. Then everyone at each forum can read all the comments in each others' threads. Maybe both threads will end up getting locked ... However, there is a similar rule here already about that, re ad-hominems, etc. as you pointed out. <br /> Posted by Smersh</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>Uh oh... forum wars about lunar hoaxes.</p><p>This should be fun.</p><p>I say bring it on. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-yell.gif" border="0" alt="Yell" title="Yell" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[Mee_n_Mac]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp; The gravity neutral point might work for 2 static object and will represent their mass properly, but that about all it's good for.&nbsp;&nbsp; <br />Posted by <strong>derekmcd</strong></DIV><br /><br />Agreed ! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>-----------------------------------------------------</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask not what your Forum Software can do do on you,</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Ask it to, please for the love of all that's Holy, <strong>STOP</strong> !</font></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>&nbsp;Uh oh... forum wars about lunar hoaxes.This should be fun.I say bring it on. <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>I'm just composing my post at OM as I write. [Might take me a while.] Please though guys, I would appreciate it that this does not become a "forum war." That was never my intention in starting this thread. I just wanted to get a civilised debate going, cheers!</p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

OK, first post now made. Thread at Open Minds <strong>here.</strong><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

<p><font color="#800080">OK, first post now made. Thread at Open Minds here. <br /> Posted by Smersh</font></p><p>Someone over at open minds posted the following:&nbsp;</p><p><font size="2">"However if you are searching for the truth no matter what the cost and you are willing to watch proven scientific data crumble before your very eyes buy a copy of Spolters' 'Gravitational Force of the Sun' and find a nice quiet place to read".</font></p><p>I thought maybe this is what they should really say:</p><p>"However, if you are searching for a way to part with your hard earned money no matter what the cost and you are willing to believe proven scientific data is simply going to crumble before your eyes. Buy a copy of Spolters "Gravitational Farce of the Sun" and find a nice quiet place to sigh over lost money".</p><p>And consider that you asked the OP for data backing the claim which has yet to emerge. But then, I guess you have to buy the book for that.&nbsp;</p><p>If I seem a bit too hard or skeptical here, its that I have seen so much of the same hype surrounding conspiracy books. Consider the amount of conspiracy stuff we deal with here...lunar landings faked, hollow earth, electric universe, growing earth, ET is here, ET is here and gov is covering, and on and on. All have one thing in common...its always a search for the truth...us vs them, they...they don't want you to know.</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>OK, first post now made. Thread at Open Minds here. Posted by SmershSomeone over at open minds posted the following:&nbsp;"However if you are searching for the truth no matter what the cost and you are willing to watch proven scientific data crumble before your very eyes buy a copy of Spolters' 'Gravitational Force of the Sun' and find a nice quiet place to read".I thought maybe this is what they should really say:"However, if you are searching for a way to part with your hard earned money no matter what the cost and you are willing to believe proven scientific data is simply going to crumble before your eyes. Buy a copy of Spolters "Gravitational Farce of the Sun" and find a nice quiet place to sigh over lost money".And consider that you asked the OP for data backing the claim which has yet to emerge. But then, I guess you have to buy the book for that.&nbsp;If I seem a bit too hard or skeptical here, its that I have seen so much of the same hype surrounding conspiracy books. Consider the amount of conspiracy stuff we deal with here...lunar landings faked, hollow earth, electric universe, growing earth, ET is here, ET is here and gov is covering, and on and on. All have one thing in common...its always a search for the truth...us vs them, they...they don't want you to know. <br /> Posted by qso1</DIV></p><p>Cheers for those comments qso1. Hopefully the conspiracy theorists will read that from the link I gave them.</p><p>Here's an update on the thread at OM [see link in my previous post.]:</p><p>John Lear has made a few brief comments, and I have done the same in reply.&nbsp; So far though, nobody has made a direct response to the earlier posts I made, in which I quoted some of the comments made here earlier. </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Cheers for those comments qs01. Hopefully the conspiracy theorists will read that from the link I gave them.Here's an update on the thread at OM [see link in my previous post.]:John Lear has made a few brief comments, and I have done the same in reply.&nbsp; So far though, nobody has made a direct response to the earlier posts I made, in which I quoted some of the comments made here earlier. &nbsp; <br /> Posted by Smersh</DIV><br /></p><p>I was just kidding on the forum wars... not my style.&nbsp; I like your last response.&nbsp; The "step up or go home" approach. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I was just kidding on the forum wars... not my style.&nbsp; I like your last response.&nbsp; The "step up or go home" approach. <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>Cheers. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-wink.gif" border="0" alt="Wink" title="Wink" /> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p>More posts have been made in the other thread.</p><p>We have an ally to our cause posting there again now, too. -</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[Kalstang]

<p><font color="#ff0000"><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'><font size="2">Uhm, any chance you are an Apollo hugger?</DIV></font></font></p><p>I would have posted this over there but my account is waiting for approval. But this is johnlear's response to you. Basically this is someone that has their mind closed and has no intention of actually trying to understand the truth. No matter how much proof you have. He is basically saying that because you believe in the Apollo landing then you are a fool because you believe the government. He believes that it is a massive conspiracy between all the countries. </p><p>My response would basically be that I just tend to believe actual real science and not some made up mumbo jumbo. Or words to that effect. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>

 

[Kalstang]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Wait till I make my next post over there and put a link to this thread. Then everyone at each forum can read all the comments in each others' threads. Maybe both threads will end up getting locked ... However, there is a similar rule here already about that, re ad-hominems, etc. as you pointed out. <br />Posted by Smersh</DIV><br /><br />Very true. But we are allowed a bit of lee way. I've got a feeling that this would be used at anyone that has even the slightest hint of anyone that is not liked and accepted. I'll admit I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>

 

[qso1]

<p><font color="#800080">Cheers for those comments qso1. Hopefully the conspiracy theorists will read that from the link I gave them.Here's an update on the thread at OM [see link in my previous post.]:John Lear has made a few brief comments, and I have done the same in reply.&nbsp; So far though, nobody has made a direct response to the earlier posts I made, in which I quoted some of the comments made here earlier. Posted by Smersh</font></p><p>Thanks, and thanks to derekmcd as well.</p><p><font color="#800080">No matter how much proof you have. He is basically saying that because you believe in the Apollo landing then you are a fool because you believe the government. He believes that it is a massive conspiracy between all the countries.</font></p><p>Good point. I have found this to be largely true, especially with people who are trying to champion such a cause. Some people who are not so sure are occasionaly a different story. I once talked with a young engineer who bought into the lunar hoax stuff and he didn't know there was more than one moon landing. I found this out when I asked if he thought Apollos 12-17 were faked.</p><p>Once I explained the technical rationale...that is, why its not that hard to do or why the radiation belts are not as big a factor as some HBers make out, he seemed willing to accept that man had been to the moon. But he was more exception than rule.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I would have posted this over there but my account is waiting for approval. But this is johnlear's response to you. Basically this is someone that has their mind closed and has no intention of actually trying to understand the truth. No matter how much proof you have. He is basically saying that because you believe in the Apollo landing then you are a fool because you believe the government. He believes that it is a massive conspiracy between all the countries. My response would basically be that I just tend to believe actual real science and not some made up mumbo jumbo. Or words to that effect. <br /> Posted by kalstang</DIV></p><p>Hi Kalstang, yes I saw those posts by John Lear,&nbsp; and figured as much. I have responded to those particular comments of his&nbsp; anyway. Also, as I mentioned, calikid [a mod at OM] has also made some posts supporting our side of the argument, and posted an excellent link there to the Apollo Lunar Surface Gravimeter Experiment.&nbsp;</p><p>Thanks also for signing up over there as well. It's true that accounts have to be approved, but hopefully, you won't have to wait too long. I think when I joined up, I had to wait only a few hours.&nbsp;</p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Chances are, the calculations being done will be in vain. Anyone who believes this lunar gravity stuff probably already believes we never made it to the moon. <br /> Posted by qso1</DIV></p><p>Well, in John Lear's latest post, he is now saying, as you suggested, that he believes the Apollo missions were faked.&nbsp; As I write, nobody has yet replied, but maybe we need to borrow Andrew's "dead horse" emoticons for that one. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-laughing.gif" border="0" alt="Laughing" title="Laughing" /></p><p>Maybe I'll just post with a link to Phil Plait's debunking, as I really can't be bothered to re-invent the wheel yet again.</p><p><span class="postbody"> To confuse matters still further though, I'm not sure whether Zorgon and some of the others at OM believe we went to the Moon or not, or are just questioning the Lunar gravity issue... I suspect that some do believe, others don't ... </span><img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/content/scripts/tinymce/plugins/emotions/images/smiley-undecided.gif" border="0" alt="Undecided" title="Undecided" /> </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[drwayne]

<p>When you logical process is</p><p>(1) Theory XYZ is true</p><p>(2) Anyone who tells you XYZ isn't true is lying/misinformed.</p><p>It is hard to change your mind about&nbsp;XYZ</p><p>Wayne&nbsp; </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>"1) Give no quarter; 2) Take no prisoners; 3) Sink everything."  Admiral Jackie Fisher</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

<p><font color="#800080">As I write, nobody has yet replied, but maybe we need to borrow Andrew's "dead horse" emoticons for that one.</font></p><p>Gotta love them dead horses.&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#800080">Maybe I'll just post with a link to Phil Plait's debunking, as I really can't be bothered to re-invent the wheel yet again.</font></p><p>His sites one of the best Ive seen.&nbsp;</p><p><font color="#800080">To confuse matters still further though, I'm not sure whether Zorgon and some of the others at OM believe we went to the Moon or not, or are just questioning the Lunar gravity issue... I suspect that some do believe, others don't ... &nbsp; <br /> Posted by Smersh</font></p><p>My reason for assuming that they do believe we didn't go to the moon, if they do not believe the gravity of the moon to be 1/6th...a figure that much of the Apollo program rested on. Then they are highly unlikely to believe anyones been to the moon IMO. Especially since NASA is supposedly covering up this .64 gravity business.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[Smersh]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>...My reason for assuming that they do believe we didn't go to the moon, if they do not believe the gravity of the moon to be 1/6th...a figure that much of the Apollo program rested on. Then they are highly unlikely to believe anyones been to the moon IMO. Especially since NASA is supposedly covering up this .64 gravity business.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by qso1</DIV></p><p>The reason for my confusion qso1, is because of a post that Zorgon made early on in the thread, in which he was querying why the Apollo astronauts only managed "small hops" and seemed to be linking it to the 64% gravity that he believes in, rather than suggesting that the moonwalks were faked here on Earth. </p><p>I'm still not 100% certain though [or even 64%, for that matter ... ] &nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <h1 style="margin:0pt;font-size:12px">----------------------------------------------------- </h1><p><font color="#800000"><em>Lady Nancy Astor: "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd poison your tea."<br />Churchill: "Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it."</em></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Website / forums </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The reason for my confusion qso1, is because of a post that Zorgon made early on in the thread, in which he was querying why the Apollo astronauts only managed "small hops" and seemed to be linking it to the 64% gravity that he believes in, rather than suggesting that the moonwalks were faked here on Earth. I'm still not 100% certain though [or even 64%, for that matter ... ] &nbsp; <br />Posted by Smersh</DIV></p><p>Take a look at the complete thread that started this, with the reference to the book by Pari Spolter.&nbsp; Then take a look at the book's contents (say at Amazon.com), and finally do a search on Pari Spolter.&nbsp; The .64% is just the tip of the iceberg.&nbsp; Polter is saying that Newton and Einstein were both badly wrong.&nbsp; How about F = A x a where A is area ?</p><p>Wacko cubed.<br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

Remind Jonlear (from the open minds forum) that the values he input into his formula are quite simply wrong.&nbsp; The formula he is using is for 2 static objects.&nbsp; The values he input are more closely related to the Lagrange point (L1).&nbsp; The formula for L1 is far more complicated and involves things like the Hill Sphere, orbital velocities, centripetal forces, momentums and other stuff.&nbsp; It's part of the n-body solutions which is more complicated than I'm prepared to deal with.&nbsp; Factor in the trajectory of the craft only adds to the complication.<br /><br />The formula I used previously to come up with 26,500 miles from the moon is for 2 static objects.&nbsp; Should he use the correct values in his fomula, he will probably come up with with about 1/6th.&nbsp; I don't feel like doing it for him, but I'm pretty confident that's what it will show.<br /><br />Zorgon (from the open minds forum) wrote:&nbsp; "Why are skeptics always so insecure that they need to play a game and keep score... a score that they set the rules for?"<br /><br />Remind him that us "skeptics" didn't write the rules... Laws of physics wrote the rules.<br /><br />infotech (from the open minds forum) wrote: "Then you show the formula you've been given matches the result you've been given. Cool. Now prove it. And please no "Nasa films this or that. Show me how you can personally measure the amount of gravity on the moon and prove the formula is right. A calculator can be worked by a monkey - it doesn't demonstrate proof or knowledge."<br /><br />Formulae derived from observations or, conversely, observations that confirm formulae are both proof the formulae are correct.&nbsp; Not really sure at what he's grasping at here.&nbsp; Monkeys may be able to operate a calculator, but when they input the wrong value, they get the wrong answer.<br /><br />He then goes on to state:&nbsp; "I know card tricks which can pull the card you've picked based on math. Does that mean I'm magic?"<br /><br />Nope... not magic.&nbsp; The moment he pulls the correct card confirms the formula he used is correct.&nbsp; Funny how he uses an analogy that answers his own demands for proof.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Remind Jonlear (from the open minds forum) that the values he input into his formula are quite simply wrong.&nbsp; The formula he is using is for 2 static objects.&nbsp; The values he input are more closely related to the Lagrange point (L1).&nbsp; The formula for L1 is far more complicated and involves things like the Hill Sphere, orbital velocities, centripetal forces, momentums and other stuff.&nbsp; It's part of the n-body solutions which is more complicated than I'm prepared to deal with.&nbsp; Factor in the trajectory of the craft only adds to the complication.The formula I used previously to come up with 26,500 miles from the moon is for 2 static objects.&nbsp; Should he use the correct values in his fomula, he will probably come up with with about 1/6th.&nbsp; I don't feel like doing it for him, but I'm pretty confident that's what it will show.Zorgon (from the open minds forum) wrote:&nbsp; "Why are skeptics always so insecure that they need to play a game and keep score... a score that they set the rules for?"Remind him that us "skeptics" didn't write the rules... Laws of physics wrote the rules.infotech (from the open minds forum) wrote: "Then you show the formula you've been given matches the result you've been given. Cool. Now prove it. And please no "Nasa films this or that. Show me how you can personally measure the amount of gravity on the moon and prove the formula is right. A calculator can be worked by a monkey - it doesn't demonstrate proof or knowledge."Formulae derived from observations or, conversely, observations that confirm formulae are both proof the formulae are correct.&nbsp; Not really sure at what he's grasping at here.&nbsp; Monkeys may be able to operate a calculator, but when they input the wrong value, they get the wrong answer.He then goes on to state:&nbsp; "I know card tricks which can pull the card you've picked based on math. Does that mean I'm magic?"Nope... not magic.&nbsp; The moment he pulls the correct card confirms the formula he used is correct.&nbsp; Funny how he uses an analogy that answers his own demands for proof. <br />Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>If you really want&nbsp; to get into the details of the Lagrange libration points L1, L2, ...L5, you might look in <em>An Introduction to the Mathematics and Methods of Astrodynamics</em> by Richard H. Battin.&nbsp; But it gets pretty complicated.&nbsp; If you think you can use the derivation associated with the libration points to change the mind of someone who rejects F=ma, then all I can do is wish you luck and moral support from the sideliines.&nbsp; Given that the post that originated this thread came from another, very different (thank God), forum I fear that you may be either preaching to the choir (here) or talking to yourself (there).&nbsp; <br /></p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Kalstang]

Ok posted my first post over there. I'm not much of a mathmatician so I am using logic instead. Wonder what will come of it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>

 

[DrRocket]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Ok posted my first post over there. I'm not much of a mathmatician so<strong> I am using logic</strong> instead. Wonder what will come of it. <br />Posted by kalstang</DIV><br /><br />Maybe you'll be banned. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Kalstang]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Maybe you'll be banned. <br />Posted by DrRocket</DIV><br /><br />Always a possibility. It's what happened at that grassroots huckabee forum I played in for awhile. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

Your comment about jumping too hard and flying of the face of the moon is going to get you laughed at.&nbsp; Please tell me you don't seriously believe that... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>But it gets pretty complicated. <br /> Posted by DrRocket</DIV></p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>You're not kidding about that.&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[Kalstang]

Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Your comment about jumping too hard and flying of the face of the moon is going to get you laughed at.&nbsp; Please tell me you don't seriously believe that... <br />Posted by derekmcd</DIV><br /><br />Hey I didn't say <em>exactly</em> how far a person would fly now did I? lol <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#3366ff">I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer.</font> <br /><font color="#ff0000">"Imagination is more important then Knowledge" ~Albert Einstien~</font> <br /><font color="#cc99ff">Guns dont kill people. People kill people</font>.</p></font><p><font color="#ff6600">Solar System</font></p> </div>