Obama Lies on Single-Payer, Disses Post Office

[MannyPim]

FTA:

By Philip Klein on 8.11.09 @ 2:20PM

In a just-completed New Hampshire town hall meeting, President Obama stated that he never said he supported a single-payer health care system. But as clearly evidenced by this video, in 2003, he declared: "I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care plan."

Meanwhile, at another point of today's town hall meeting, Obama was pushing back against the idea that the creation of a new government-run plan would drive private insurers out of business, and he said that UPS and FedEx were doing fine, but "it's the post office that's always having problems." Oops!


Link: http://spectator.org/blog/2009/08/11/ob ... -payer-dis

Frodo, a question for you.
What do you normally call someone who lies habitually ? Do you have a special name for a person like that ?


Another thing.... everyone seems to be in agreement that Obama is simply brilliant. It's almost a tautology (just like the riff about Bush being an idiot ). But here is what I don't get:

Obama is trying to build a case for how the Government can do a much better job as a healthcare provider than the private sector can.... And to try to make that case, he brings out an analogy where he basically RIDICULES the job that a Government run service is doing ..... Huh ??? Does that sound smart to anyone ??

Oh, and he also lied about the AARP endorsing his government health plan.

I am beginning to really dislike this guy !

 

[vladdrac]

And sometimes NASA gets to the moon. In any case I'd rather have a committee of greedy pigs watching my money than one Bernard Madoff. Groups of greedy swine usually draw attention to themselves while trying to off one another...why FOX and GE settled....He's just giving 'them' a chance to retire gracefully. Peoples Revolutions are not pretty things.

 

[MannyPim]

And sometimes NASA gets to the moon. In any case I'd rather have a committee of greedy pigs watching my money than one Bernard Madoff. Groups of greedy swine usually draw attention to themselves while trying to off one another...why FOX and GE settled....He's just giving 'them' a chance to retire gracefully. Peoples Revolutions are not pretty things.

I used to think that your posts here were hard to understand because you would adress an issue in what sounded like vague terms where you took for granted that everyone understood how two or three inferences that you had made and left unstated were still somehow connected to the issue being discussed.

After almost 3 years of reading your posts I am no better able to discern your meaning than I was at first.

But at least now I KNOW why I don't understand what you mean..... It's because your posts generally have nothing to do with the topic of discussion.

It's not that you are incapable of understanding the topic of discussion or even that you have nothing meaningful and relevant to say about it. It's simply that you find that kind of clear and straighforward communication a bit too mundane and boring. Either that or you just enjoy leaving people wondering what in the hell you are talking about.....

From your avoidance of the questions raised, I would say that you don;t really mind that your leader is again pissing down your legs and trying to convince you it's raining. But, how would you explain his use of the Post Office as an inpet organization to try to sell government takeover of something which is many times more complex than taking an envelope from point A to point B ? I am genuinely curious about your reaction to that....

 

[Kerberos]

That's kind of strange. Why the heck did he lie about it, knowing that the video of him has been floating around the internet for a week? It's like Hillary dodging the snipers.

 

[MannyPim]

That's kind of strange. Why the heck did he lie about it, knowing that the video of him has been floating around the internet for a week? It's like Hillary dodging the snipers.

I think by now this has turned into a game for him. At some point he discovered that (for some unknown reason) he could say things that were outright false and he wouldn't be called on it. Now he enjoys himself by pushing the envelope... just keep increasing the outrageousness of the lies and see just how far he can take it.

It's pretty shocking actually that, even after we have collected dozens of similar examples of Obama lying and breaking his word, we have people like Frodo who chastise me for calling him a LIAR. It's as if we don't say the word, we can keep the fantasy alive that he is a man with any kind of integrity.

 

[phaze]

I'm not sure - but I think the recent spate of aggressive and violent T-storms in New England may have something to do with El Nino.

There could also be cosmic forces at work - in concert with our economic recession - that have also contributed to a slower deliver of the mail.

 

[MannyPim]

AARP calls out Obama on his LYING

FTA: AARP Reacts to President’s Health Care Townhall

WASHINGTON – AARP Chief Operating Officer Tom Nelson issued this statement following remarks by the President at a townhall event in New Hampshire on health care reform.

“AARP has been working with Democrats and Republicans to fix our broken health care system.

“While the President was correct that AARP will not endorse a health care reform bill that would reduce Medicare benefits, indications that we have endorsed any of the major health care reform bills currently under consideration in Congress are inaccurate.


Link: http://www.aarp.org/aarp/presscenter/pr ... ction.html

 

[MannyPim]

So, just to keep track, Obama has now bad mouthed Cops, Doctors, Bankers, Insurance workers, and Post Office Workers.

But the purpose of this post is to correct the tally of lies told by Obama in his town hall meeting.

It turns out that the ENTIRE EVENT was nothing more than a BIG LIE itself:

FTA: EDITORIAL: Potemkin town halls
Obama's health care forums are staged pep rallies
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES | Wednesday, August 12, 2009

ArticleComments (4)Print[-][+] Font Size E-Mail AlertsTell a FriendGot a Question?You ReportClick-2-ListenYahoo! BuzzPresident Obama should be charged with false advertising for calling yesterday's Portsmouth, N.H., event a "town-hall meeting." It was a staged, partisan campaign rally.

The Portsmouth rally was the first of three such events planned for this week. If nothing else, it was well-choreographed, if not completely scripted. The questions posed to the president were all softballs; his answers were mostly platitudes. Mr. Obama said that he wanted to hear from people who disagree with him because "they need to be heard, too," but it was hard to discern opposing viewpoints through the chants of "Yes, we can."

Link: http://www.washtimes.com/news/2009/aug/ ... own-halls/

So that's THREE Whoppers in one evening so far.
I am sure I will run across a story sooner or later that disects every thing he said in this staged theatre piece and we will have a more accurate measurement of his "truthiness" for you.

 

[vladdrac]

Enjoy you're victory Murdochites. It may be you're last. It is, almost certainly, the last chance for peacefull change. When the people wake up from the dream you have imposed upon them, not all the black clad, face masked storm troopers in the country will be able to save you. :lol:

 

[jimglenn]

U tell 'em Vlad. Murdock must be influencing obama. Everytime the situation changes, and obama must
alter his viewpoint, he is called a liar. Standard operating practice for republicans.

I am hoping for a Pimm website to be created that keeps us informed on the Darf Vader like president.

In the morning I will view it. At lunch. When I get home. After firing up the TurboBong.

Then it will make sense. :x Use the force, Barrack! Helf kare in a bottle. Reduce the docs. The rite pills can cure anything. Moe natural remedies.

 

[crazyeddie]

That's kind of strange. Why the heck did he lie about it, knowing that the video of him has been floating around the internet for a week? It's like Hillary dodging the snipers.

Nothing strange about it at all. The fact is, Obama is not lying. He is STILL a proponent of single payer health care. But that is not what he is attempting to implement with his health care reform proposals. It's not an expansion of Medicare. He knows, and has in fact stated repeatedly in many recent interviews, that it not politically feasible to bring about such a radical restructuring of our health care system at the present time. So he is instead trying to do what IS possible in the present political and economic climate.

Of course, Obama-haters and anti-reformist status-quo conservatives WOULD interpret this video, taken years ago, as lying, because they either stupidly or deliberately assume that Obama's ultimate objective is single-payer health care for everyone, even though Obama has stated repeatedly that that's not what these reforms are about. THEY are the liars here, not Obama.

 

[MannyPim]

And.... we have officially entered..... the Twilight Zone.....

to do do do do do do do ! to do do do do do do do ......

 

[crazyeddie]

And.... we have officially entered..... the Twilight Zone.....

to do do do do do do do ! to do do do do do do do ......

Yes, your obsessive anti-Obama crusade does seem like a bad Twilight Zone nightmare, for sure.....one that you insist on forcing on the rest of us.

 

[MannyPim]

FTA: A New Low in Support for Health Care Overhaul

Fiery town hall meetings and concern about costs are stoking opposition to President Obama and congressional Democrats' effort to overhaul the U.S. health care system, a new Rasmussen Reports survey shows.

The national telephone suvey of 1,000 likely voters from Aug. 9-10 found public support for an overhaul falling to a new low of 42 percent. That is 5 percent lower than two weeks ago and 8 points down from six weeks ago.

The survey found 44 percent of respondents strongly oppose the effort while just 26 percent strongly favor it. Most of the stiffest resistance comes from individuals over age 65.

The survey showed a predictable partisan split, with nearly seven in 10 Democrats favoring the overhaul and an almost equal proportion of GOP voters opposed. However, 62 percent of self-described unaffiliated voters now oppose the plan, signaling further erosion among political independents.

Link: http://news.yahoo.com/s/cq/20090812/pl_ ... ics3190495

Americans DON'T WANT Socialist Medicine !!
How much clearer could the message be ?

It isn't necessary to organize the crowds and get them all riled up. Obama and the Democrats are trying to cram this garbage down everyone's throats and people DON'T WANT IT. It will give the government too much control and too much access to private information. It will strip Americans of a large portion of their Freedom. It will bankrupt this Nation (we already have accumulated $34 TRILLION in unfunded liabilities in Medicare ALONE). And it will turn the best healthcare system in the world into another replica of the British NHS or the Canadian System. And it's UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

The anger is real. The outrage is real. The arrogance and condescension on the part of Democrats is real.
The reason they can't sell it is because they can't tell you what's in it.
The reason they can't tell you what's in it is because almost none of them has read the damn thing and those who have and know what's in it, also know that they have to lie about it. If they told the truth, it could NEVER pass.

 

[crazyeddie]

Americans DON'T WANT Socialist Medicine !!
How much clearer could the message be ?
.

It's not at all as clear as you imagine. Other polls show that public opinion on Obama's health care reform efforts has changed very little over the past few weeks, in spite of the efforts of the anti-reformists to derail it:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/122255/Amid- ... CSTS=alert

So polls don't really mean much. And it's NOT "socialist medicine", no matter how much you keep calling it that. And I can say with some certainty that some kind of health care reform WILL pass, whether you and your ilk like it or not, Manny. I'm disappointed that Obama isn't disciplining the Blue Dog Democrats more and kicking recalcitrant Democratic butts to further his cause, but we need reform, and we'll get it.....even though it may be only a temporary solution that puts off the inevitable: a fully nationalized health care system, like every other developed nation in the world enjoys.

 

[R1]

Also, as I've already stated, the polls are meaningless now, as I/m sure that quite a bit of people polled became
misinformed by some republican extremists.

Many people in dire need of a good healthcare option do not even have telephone service at this time, while on the other hand,
we have vicious republican extremists quite possibly on million-dollar-a-month health insurance payrolls only waiting for poll
calls and showing up in masses at public meetings. These paid protesters are known to be getting $90 a day to walk around
in deceptive protest.

Furthermore, no one is trying to socialize the medical field, this reform is only about bringing about an alternative option, and
for those with no employer option at all, it will bring them urgently vital affordable healthcare.


(edit/add: More about the million-dollar-a-day deceptive insurance company practice on this post,
explained by Senator Sanders:
link: http://www.space.com/common/forums/viewtopic.php?p=374241#p374241

)

 

[R1]

The post office is something to be proud of, and people do have faith in it. I once read of a lottery winner with
so much faith in the post office that simply mailed a winning ticket for reimbusrsement. What Obama meant is
most likely that the post office did not put FedEx and Ups out of business.

The federal healthcare option for those who choose it will help keep the private health insurance companies a lot
more honest and decent; it is they, toaday's insurance companies, who are riping off people so unimaginalby,
animalistically, and regionally monopolistically. Don't couterargue me that it will drive them out of business, because in reality
a few here and there really may and they deserve it; but others will not and will prosper more honestly and costeffectively,
and we may even get a few additional new ones too.

 

[yevaud]

You might remember that private insurers are not responsible for the sheer costs of the current healthcare system. I worked in it for many years, and I can tell you that a great deal of it is due to malpractice costs, plus the requirement to provide free care for anyone who appears and requires care without insurance. Regulation is another huge cost as well.

 

[MannyPim]

The post office is something to be proud of, and people do have faith in it. I once read of a lottery winner with
so much faith in the post office that simply mailed a winning ticket for reimbusrsement. What Obama meant is
most likely that the post office did not put FedEx and Ups out of business.

The federal healthcare option for those who choose it will help keep the private health insurance companies a lot
more honest and decent; it is they, toaday's insurance companies, who are riping off people so unimaginalby,
animalistically, and regionally monopolistically. Don't couterargue me that it will drive them out of business, because in reality
a few here and there really may and they deserve it; but others will not and will prosper more honestly and costeffectively,
and we may even get a few additional new ones too.

Ok... now we know that you have completely accepted as gospel everything you are being told by the Governement.
It must be a wonderful feeling to be so trusting....
Not a shred of doubt in your mind that this magical new law will accomplish everything they're claiming, huh ?

Let's see:

It will cover everyone in America
It will LOWER costs
It will improve quality of care
It will fix the ecomony (because, you know... we can't really fix the economy until we address the healthcare issue)
And it will only cost the rich a lot more money (so we get to stick it those rich bastards in the process.... a BONUS ! )

About the eonly claim that they haven't made yet is that it will decrease our carbon footprint. If they can work that one in there, I think we have an ironclad deal.....

Do you seriously and truly believe all of this will happen ?

Do you have anything to say about the fact that Medicare ( a much cmaller scale and less ambitious experiment in Socialist Medicine) is as of today THIRTY SIX TRILLION DOLLARS in the red ? That doesn't bother you ?

Does it bother you that the cost of Medicare was underestimated by a factor of 6 (in the 70's the bean counters estimated that in the year 1990 the US govenment would spend about $9 Billion on Medicare and the actual cost turned out to be $55 Billion ) ?

Does it bother you that we could be off on the cost estimates for this new plan by the same margin of error (600%) ?
That would mean that instead of the $1.6 TRILLION that the CBO has projected as the cost for the first 10 years of the plan, the real number could be another $10 TRILLION on top of the $36 Trillion we are already liable for ?

 

[MannyPim]

You might remember that private insurers are not responsible for the sheer costs of the current healthcare system. I worked in it for many years, and I can tell you that a great deal of it is due to malpractice costs, plus the requirement to provide free care for anyone who appears and requires care without insurance. Regulation is another huge cost as well.

And those two factors make it perfectly clear that the claim Obama is making that he is trying to control healthcare costs (because the status quo is unsutainable) is a false claim. Why is that ?
Becasue there is NO TALK at all about tort reform in the Obama plan and because he wants American tax payers to foot the bill for up to $20 MILLION illegals. Now imagine when word gets around that if you are an illegal in the US you get free, tax payer funded socialst healthcare... At that point you could build a 50 foot wall along the entire 3,000 mile border and you still won't be able to keep the hordes from invading..... Wonder how much lower our healthcare costs will be when we have 50 to 70 MILLION illegals sucking on the government teat.

By the way, they are already prepping for the next outrage.... so called " immigration reform" is in the wings.... they will do with that what they are doing with this healthcare power grab.... they are going to try their best to ram some kind of amensty program down our throats again....

 

[R1]

You might remember that private insurers are not responsible for the sheer costs of the current healthcare system. I worked in it for many years, and I can tell you that a great deal of it is due to malpractice costs, plus the requirement to provide free care for anyone who appears and requires care without insurance. Regulation is another huge cost as well.

I'm actually upset at the insurance company fees and scams and partial coverages and no-coverages and cap-limits on coverages, as well
as rising premiums and deductibles and the ubiquitous lack of employer insurance portability...
all this before I even get upset at healthcare costs.

It's like a world without the post office, just fedex and ups, and they're both saying they will charge you $300 an hour to deliver your letters
to another state. Years later, in the prestent day, they're saying they want $600/hr and they will only deliver 'some of them', and some
they will only deliver except for the last 50 miles, and you have to drive the letters yourself the first 30 miles as a deductible. All this
while people are dying and more may die as a result of these exemplary scams and ripoffs, and if that's not enough, in this example
fedex and ups spend hundreds of millions of dollars, one million a day, to ensure they keep their regional
monopolies the way the cartels operate, with utter disregard of who dies, and possibly a death only that benefits their profit.

 

[phaze]

Why is it called the Post Office? Why not the Mail Delivery Agency?

 

[R1]

Why is it called the Post Office? Why not the Mail Delivery Agency?

Well imho it's called the U.S.P.S, the United States postal service, but I find your question interesting.

 

[R1]

Manny- No, it will not cover everyone in the U.S.
It will only cover those who choose it and need it.

Iow, some will continue to use fedex, some will continue to use ups, but those refused by either, or anyone who needs
or wants to use the post office will be able to do so.

 

[crazyeddie]

You might remember that private insurers are not responsible for the sheer costs of the current healthcare system. I worked in it for many years, and I can tell you that a great deal of it is due to malpractice costs, plus the requirement to provide free care for anyone who appears and requires care without insurance. Regulation is another huge cost as well.

Agreed; they are not responsible for the sheer costs ALONE......they are just part of the particularly convoluted problem. But the huge CEO salaries, billing bureaucracy, underwriting, advertising, and shareholder dividends of the private insurers are probably the most wasteful part of our dysfunctional health care delivery system. That's why Medicare, with all it's faults, can function with a 3% overhead, while private insurance providers can't do it for less than 10%.....and in some cases, as much as 25% overhead. Billions of dollars are being skimmed off premiums to pay for these things, money that could otherwise go to providing health care services.