Orbit & Magnets

[TheSun123]

Hello, Hello,

My first thread here so mods please move if it’s in the wrong place.

I can’t find a clear on this basic question. Because it contradicts what I’ve been taught in school and could find online. So please hear me out before you dismiss it as: “common knowledge”.

The question I’m trying to answer is: What causes the earth to orbit symmetrically around the sun? And has anyone ever replicated it on earth. Even if on a flat surface.

Allot of current science doesn’t add up on it.

ive heard gravity, but the thing is that it doesn’t specify the different types and how each type works then. Because when you drop something it falls. but the earth just keeps boomeranging around the sun.
doesn’t work.


Newtons 1st law says something is pushing pulling the earth around the sun. I think it is magnetic.

This also doesn’t work like that because the earth doesn’t move in a circle around the sun. It’s oval. So there is noway gravity is what’s what’s causing orbit.

Sir Isaac Newton’s law of universal gravity said it’s about mass and distance. but it also doesn’t work like that because then they would not have a uniform flight path. Also, They would slowly be drawn toward the sun in the summer and stay there. But yet it still pushes away in a oval.

So by his logic two giant pieces of plastic floating in space magically have an orbit. I think it’s more about the materials instead of the size. It looks more magnetic than anything.

If anyone has a deep understanding of this. Please PM me or reply here.

Thank’s,

TheSun123

 

[Catastrophe]

Hi, and welcome!

Your pictures just show objects of equal size. This may be confusing.
Think of standing on the Earth. You are a lot smaller than the Earth, so the Earth pulls you more than you pull the Earth. Nothing is easily going to pull you off the Earth by gravity.
Go up a stage. Mars has two tiny satellites which may be captured asteroids. They may have approached Mars just too slowly to avoid passing by, but fast enough to be drawn into orbit. They are so tiny that a very large object might pull them away from Mars.
Go up another stage. Our Moon is one of the biggest satellites in this solar system. It would take a very large object to disturb its orbit around the Earth.
So far, no magnetism has been involved in any material way.

Think of an object tied to a string. Whirl this around. You are the planet and the object is a satellite. The object must have a certain speed to keep in orbit, otherwise it is overcome by your gravity (the string) and falls to the planet. If the string were quite weak, it might be possible for the speed of the object to be strong enough to break the string. The satellite escapes the gravity of the planet and whizzes off onto space. No magnetism involved.

The shape of the orbit was described by Newton from his calculations on gravity. He determined that "the orbit of a planet is an ellipse with the Sun at one focus". Actually the 'ellipse' for most planets is an ellipse which is scarcely distinguishable from a circle, if you see it drawn on paper. Some objects, like most comets, have very pulled out ellipses. There is no magnetism involved.

Hope this helps, but please come back if you need clarification.

Cat

 

[TheSun123]

Well how was the energy created to keep the planet moving? Momentum exists if you swing it around. But there is nothing I can see that’s creating the energy. Where did the energy come from?

 

[Catastrophe]

"The momentum came from the body captured. (It is different for local formation).

If the momentum were too great, the body would pass by. If it were too small, it would be captured by the planet. If it were within these limits, it would go into orbit.

If the satellite were formed at the time of planetary formation, it would partake of the momentum of the gas cloud orbiting the central star.

"What determines a planetary orbit?"

Orbits are the result of a perfect balance between the forward motion of a body in space, such as a planet or moon, and the pull of gravity on it from another body in space, such as a large planet or star.
What causes an orbit to happen?""




Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

Newton's Second Law of Motion - The Physics Classroom
https://www.physicsclassroom.com › newtlaws › Lesson-3

 

[TheSun123]

Well we don’t really know that. Because we where not there.

Here is another more likely theory. The moon is made of 10% iron which is magnetic

The earth is made mostly of gold in the center. That’s why most gold mines are near volcano bases.

As the core heats the gold becomes magnetic. Which is what causes summer. Like covering a lid of boiling water. It takes a while for the core to heat up. Because golds is only magnetic when it heats up. (Non-equilibrium magnetic too) When it cools, from the ocean water entering into the core. it becomes non-magnetic again.

So gravity is caused by gold heating and cooling to pull/push the moon around it. Like a magnet being turned on and off. Which would explain why we never get a new moon. Because most commits are not made of magnetic materials.

There could be a strong magnetic wave emitted there creating the gravity in the Bermuda Triangle. Which could explain why so many ships and planes get sunk/crash without warning. Because they can’t radio in strong magnetic conditions.

And maybe gravity doesn’t work the same in that area. Which would explain why it’s usually December and January that the ships go missing. Because that’s the coldest time of the year when the gold is the coldest. And it’s the middle of winter. So the magnetic force is not as strong causing the planes to crash.


Space has another Bermuda Triangle that they can’t fly satellites through either. Only magnetic waves could be the answer.

Doesn’t that seem more likely? If so, which magnetic pattern is the globe using?

 

[Catastrophe]

TheSun123

I am very sorry, but I do have some problems with your above posts.
Can you please assist with some clarification?

Quote
The moon is made of 10% iron which is magnetic
The earth is made mostly of gold in the center. That’s why most gold mines are near volcano bases.
Quote

How do you justify that the Moon is 10% iron, and how come the Moon is made of 10% iron when the Earth is mostly gold in the centre?

Quote
Well we don’t really know that. Because we where not there.
Quote

I really don't see what this refers to, but it makes me wonder how you got your information about the Earth's centre being gold "because we were not there"? There seems to be a logical discrepancy between these statements.

Coming back to the gold question (without yet talking about quantities), I am aware of some work on this subject: The hot attraction of gold -- ScienceDaily

The experiment is described as:
"A subsequent experiment confirmed, for the first time, that magnetization in gold can be induced by the heat flow driven by a temperature change . . . . . . . . .
The set up of the experiment was quite simple, involving a bilayer comprising Yttrium iron garnet (YIG), which is an insulator magnet, and a thin film of gold."
These conditions were scarcely applicable to the centre of the Earth. Can you please provide references to substantiate your assertion which suggests otherwise? Clearly a thin bilayer of YIG and gold is unlikely there?
BTW, do you agree that "The Earth’s core has a similar temperature to the surface of the Sun"?
If so, would you agree that this approximates to the temperature of the experiment? . . . or are we referring to different experiments.

Apologies for any incorrect comparisons. Your post does not contain substantiating references so it is difficult to make comparisons. Provisions of any such references would be much appreciated.


Cat

 

[Catastrophe]

Addendum regarding gold.
You stated: "The earth is made mostly of gold in the center."
Will you please advise your reference, which seems to differ markedly from mine?

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/earths-inner-fort-knox
"Wood has calculated that 1.6 quadrillion tons of gold must lie in Earth's core. This may sound like a lot, but it is really only a tiny percentage of the core's overall mass—about one part per million."

Cat

 

[COLGeek]

Well we don’t really know that. Because we where not there.

Here is another more likely theory. The moon is made of 10% iron which is magnetic

The earth is made mostly of gold in the center. That’s why most gold mines are near volcano bases.

As the core heats the gold becomes magnetic. Which is what causes summer. Like covering a lid of boiling water. It takes a while for the core to heat up. Because golds is only magnetic when it heats up. (Non-equilibrium magnetic too) When it cools, from the ocean water entering into the core. it becomes non-magnetic again.

So gravity is caused by gold heating and cooling to pull/push the moon around it. Like a magnet being turned on and off. Which would explain why we never get a new moon. Because most commits are not made of magnetic materials.

There could be a strong magnetic wave emitted there creating the gravity in the Bermuda Triangle. Which could explain why so many ships and planes get sunk/crash without warning. Because they can’t radio in strong magnetic conditions.

And maybe gravity doesn’t work the same in that area. Which would explain why it’s usually December and January that the ships go missing. Because that’s the coldest time of the year when the gold is the coldest. And it’s the middle of winter. So the magnetic force is not as strong causing the planes to crash.


Space has another Bermuda Triangle that they can’t fly satellites through either. Only magnetic waves could be the answer.

Doesn’t that seem more likely? If so, which magnetic pattern is the globe using?

Do you have sources for any of this? Seems a bit off course from accepted science and drifting a bit into conspiracy theory.

 

[Pogo]

The magnetic fields of the Sun and planets are far too weak to keep everything in orbit. Also, there are spacecraft and other debris in orbit not made of iron, therefore, not magnetic that keep orbit just fine. It is gravity that keeps things in orbit.
Where did the energy come from?
The original cloud of dust and gas that formed the Solar System as well as several other star systems (much like the Orion nebula is forming stars now) had an orbital motion within the galaxy and a rotation, everything rotates. Because it was very large, in order of light years diameter, the rotation rate was probably something like hundreds of thousands of years for one rotation. Then when the shock wave of one or more supernovae caused the cloud to begin collapse, as the matter became stars, planets, and so forth, the rotation rate sped up because the volume of the matter is smaller, much like a spinning figure skater bringing her arms in close to her body speeding up her spin, conservation of angular momentum.
Much of the matter collapsing to form the solar system was ejected from the system, but, some was retained to form the system. Since there was angular momentum, the Sun and all the other bodies formed retained that energy conserving angular momentum, and the orbit retains the kinetic energy.
Sure, a body may be in a circular orbit at one instant in time, but, perturbations will quickly alter that into an elliptical orbit, but, most bodies were always in an elliptical orbit. Perfect circular orbits and parabolic orbits are very difficult to achieve. Pretty much, if it's not a hyperbolic orbit where the body will leave its primary soon, its an elliptical orbit.
When the moon reaches periapsis in its orbit, its orbital velocity is a few meters per second faster than what its circular velocity would be at that altitude so it moves farther from the Earth in its orbit. Likewise, when it reaches apoapsis it is moving a few meters per second slower than its circular velocity would be at that altitude, so, it begins to decrease its altitude. So, an elliptical orbit is easily maintained.
So, let's do a though experiment based upon experience. SpaceX launches the Falcon Heavy into a near circular orbit 300 km altitude. It maintains a constant altitude throughout its orbit. In reality, gravitational influence of the Moon and Sun quickly perturbs it orbit into a slightly elliptical orbit, but, let's ignore that for now. At some point, SpaceX wants to change the orbit to 500 km. This is not unusual practice in space mechanics. At some point in the orbit, they will do a prograde burn (point the spacecraft in the direction it's moving and light 'em up) for some calculated length of time. It's periapsis (low point of the orbit) is still 300 km, but, its apoapsis (high point of the orbit) is now 500 km. With no energy added after this, it will continue in this orbit. At some point when it reaches the apoapsis, they will do another calculated prograde burn bringing the periapsis to 500 km. It's now in a near circular orbit. It's really hard to make it a perfect circle.
That's how gravity works.
Now, take Cat's ball on a string experiment, but, let's make the string elastic, then twirl it over your head. Even if you could move your arm in a perfectly circular motion, the ball will likely move in an elliptical motion because of the elasticity of the string. When the ball is closer to your hand, the string is looser and allows the ball to move away, likewise, when the ball is far from the hand, the string is tight and pulls the ball closer. Gravity can be thought of as elastic as it allows orbiting bodies to move closer to and away from the parent body. We see that most of nature is very chaotic. More of it is not perfect and very little is perfect. Hence almost all orbits are not perfect circles and parabolas.

 

[TheSun123]

To answer a few questions. And ask a few follow ups for the ones I know the answer to.
We have what came back from the lunar landing to to tell us what’s on the moons surface. No surprise, it’s 10% iron. Which we find on our planets core too. See the similarities? They are all mostly magnetic materials.

I think you answered your question about gold and iron becoming magnetic when heated. The experiment he used was not fully developed. I emailed him to see what he could find about it. Im trying to figure out how he did that. So that’s why I’m making this list.

Here is proof earths core is the reason for the magnetic pull not sir issac newtons theory of universal gravity.

When you look at the solar system the level of magnetic materials is what’s determined the placement in the galaxy. Mercury is the closest planet to the sun and it’s 100% iron. Mercury orbits more like the suns moon. Not an actual planet.


Furthermore, Mercury lacks a moon. Why does it have no moon? Because it has no core which is what’s making the magnetic fields needed to pull a iron moon around it. This explains the mystery as to why the moons face is always facing the same direction toward earth at all times of the night. Like a magnet sticking to iron. You can only stick it on one side. That proves Sir. Issac Newton’s law of universal gravity is wrong.
Another interesting observation is that the farther away from the sun the planet gets in the galaxy, the composition of the planets surface changes.
I believe the sun is made of gold, iron and other melted materials that which hold the galaxy together.

To further prove my point Notice how as the planets order in the galaxy is more organized than what meets the eye. It slowly become Even less made of magnetic materials and solid. They become a more gassy or less magnetically charged rocky planets.

Look at Mars, it’s full of volcanos and violent weather generated naturally. That you see at the Bermuda Triangle. More hurricanes form there than anywhere on the continent. It’s because it’s packed with gold. Bermuda is actually the peek of a old valcano. I’d bet they would strike it Rich if they dig deep enough on Bermuda.

I don’t know what’s making the planets stay at a safe distance though. That’s what I’m trying to figure out. There must be another equally opposite force pull it away. Like the “-“ and “+” end of a magnet and the earth is just in the middle. If so, what could it be? A black hole?


This explains allot of unanswered things. Like why every planet with a ring is always on the same axis. It looks like a magnetic field if you drop flakes of zinc on a magnet.

This proves allot about our history and science when you think about it. Like the ice age. The core had more water than magma. So everything got really cold. So the water froze instead of melting into the sea. The sun didn’t heat the earth much.
And that explains the end of the Dinosaur age, because it had more magma than water - volcanos. And the oceanic dinosaur, are still around today. Because the water cooled it before the magma could kill those dinosaurs.

I’m just trying to figure out how to reproduce the effect of the earths core.

As far as other things being in orbit that are not metal. You don’t know that. We would have 30 moons by now if everything got pulled into orbit.


So the sun is likely just a giant hot ball of hot gold and iron. fueld by natural gas. The earth has been pulled into the suns magnetic field made by the heated gold.



So what that means is there is another law of magnetism in documented. It’s not the mass. It’s the material. I’m calling it Sir. Jordan Rodgers Law of The Universes Gravity.

So far you might be able to say he challenged the status of Mercury as a planet. Because it’s actually iron, wrong element. And what defines a planet. Because I’m pretty sure a planet needs a core to have a moon.

 

[Catastrophe]

"Mercury is the closest planet to the sun and it’s 100% iron"
Yet another terminologicalinexactitude. I am soooo polite

Just check out something real. A planet which is 100% anything? Really?? Dream on!
"Mercury is a rocky planet with a huge iron core which makes up a large part of its interior. The core takes up nearly 3/4 of the planet's diameter. Mercury's iron core is about the size of the moon. Iron makes up about 70% of Mercury's total weight making Mercury the most iron-rich planet in the Solar System."
But NOT 100%!

Cat

 

[COLGeek]

Please share any sources supporting these arguments. Seems to run contrary to generally accepted science. I would really like to review, I consider myself a life long learner.

 

[Catastrophe]

If you want to know whether gravity or magnetism wins:

DROP A MAGNET and see whether it falls up or down!

Cat

 

[IG2007]

It seems that the thread has drifted a bit from the Original Post, so I am sorry if I am disrupting the conversation but, to answer the OG Post:

The question I’m trying to answer is: What causes the earth to orbit symmetrically around the sun? And has anyone ever replicated it on earth. Even if on a flat surface.

Alright then, to make it clear, first of all, gravity depends on mass - not on any magnetic material or anything else, no magnetic force can have any effect on gravity. But, I do understand your dilemma - it is hard to imagine the "force" of gravity under Newtonian laws, like how could an orbit formed between two objects if two objects simply move toward each other due to gravity. So, I would like to imagine it by Einstein's General Theory of Relativity:

Although this image is a bit redundant if one wants to imagine the orbit of equally-massive objects, this is enough for our current conversation of the orbit of Earth around the Sun.

Let's make an analogy here, consider the satellite in this image as Earth and consider Earth to be the Sun. Now, how does the satellite end up in an orbit around the Earth? Well, it was launched from the Earth, but the inertia of the satellite was disrupted by the gravity of the Earth. As Newton states in his first law of motion, any object would stay still or move on till it is disrupted by an external force. In this case, the satellite is being disrupted the gravitational force of the Earth and thus, it is not able to directly move out into space, but it is bounded by the gravity of the Earth in an orbit.

It is the exact same in the case of Sun and the Earth, and there are no magnetic disturbances to the orbit of Earth around the Sun. I hope my point is clear.

 

[Pogo]

Have you done or can you provide spectrographic analysis of sunlight showing emission lines in gold, iron and methane? That’s how one shows the composition of the Sun’s matter. All that have been so far shows the Sun predominately hydrogen, some helium, and traces of most of the other elements. Calculations even hundreds of years ago showed that if the Sun was burning gas, it would’ve run out of fuel in only a few thousand years, not 4.5 billion.