other than the Big Bag what other thoeries r there

[ben89]

gday alll, its me Benny again wiht another question whitch we want 2 discus tonite at out club/<br /><br />our question: what other thoeries r out there on the origin of the unverse other than the big bang/ sceintific thoeris only please; no bible or tribal legends.<br /><br />and be4 the big bang bcame dominant what were the thoeries? or what were the thoeries that were destroid?<br />thories that no longer hold water/

 

[yevaud]

Many.<br /><br />PBS site on Various theories <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[ben89]

thank u 2 Yewaud 4 directin me to this site/ hes a lifesaver. another question ansewred.<br /><br />whys the big bang the acepted one

 

[yevaud]

Because of all of the theories on the creation of the universe, it's the one that <i>works</i> (so far). Simply put. It has problems, sure, but all theories are works-in-progress anyways. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[tfwthom]

Not that I'm strong on cosmology, but that list seems to be missing the plasma theory.<br /><br />In another couple hundred years anything can happen, we are only at the surface of understanding. Just as the big bang replaced steady state maybe something will replace big bang.<br /><br /><br /> Big Bang: You're Dead <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1" color="#3366ff">www.siriuslookers.org</font> </div>

 

[ben89]

thanx 2 TWThom 4 dead bigbang link. i will read it as soon as i"m done typin this/<br /><br />the plasma he mentiond is that like what? i know evry1 heres advanced n i want 2 advance to<br />

 

[yevaud]

Yeah. I'd figured Hawking omitted it as he probably feels it's not quite up to a "theory" yet. So I didn't mention it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[ben89]

nevermind/ just saw the link also adress plasma

 

[ben89]

big bang problems?

 

[tfwthom]

Like I said I'm not strong on cosmology.<br /><br />Talking cosmology with a couple physicists awhile back, (paraphrasing here) they were of the opinion that it really didn't matter. Just as science discovered that the Earth wasn't the center of the universe, (and that took a few hundred years) when we know more about it maybe something we haven't even thought of yet will turn out to be what really caused the start of the universe. (amazing what kind of discussions you get into when you have clouds and beer on observing nights)<br /><br /><br />Q: What's the easiest way to observe Doppler's effect optically (not accoustically) in one's everyday life?<br /><br />A: Go out in the evening and look at the cars. They lights are white or yellow when they approach, but they are red when they are moving away of you. <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1" color="#3366ff">www.siriuslookers.org</font> </div>

 

[ben89]

how do we kno the universe is gettin bigger just cuz 2 bodies move away from each other/ <br /><br />if i"m in a classroom n i move away from the kid next 2 me cuz he smells worser than rotten cider smellin shoes it dont mean the room got bigger am i worng? <br /><br />but it sho means i went to sit at the back behind some girl with big ass hair/

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>how do we kno the universe is gettin bigger just cuz 2 bodies move away from each other/<br /><p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Because it's not just two. It's all of them. (Well, all of them beyond a certain distance. At relatively small scales, such as within a galaxy, gravity overcomes the expansion.) The astronomer Edwin Hubble discovered this when noticing a bizarrely regular pattern in the galaxies he was observing -- they were all redshifted by an amount proportional to their distance from Earth. The only thing that could explain that is if they were all moving away from Earth, and that seems extremely unlikely. It had to be more than coincidence; there had to be something fundamental going on. Thus, expansion theory, and from there, the Big Bang. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[ben89]

sho want to thank Calliarcle 4 her answre/ <br /><br />tho i dont understand, cuz even if its more than 2 bodies then its just like 20 kids gettin up from there original desks to sit farther away/ <br /><br />the room sho aint bigger but them kids sho r farther away from each ohter

 

[tfwthom]

In a way thats right....the 20 kids can move anywhere....the room just keeps getting bigger!<br /><br />The way the theory of an expanding universe was explained to me was.....think of a balloon made out of something that will not burst. The more air you put in the bigger it gets. And it will keep getting bigger, and bigger, and bigger, and it's never empty. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1" color="#3366ff">www.siriuslookers.org</font> </div>

 

[ben89]

our thank u 2 mr Thom from evry1 here at our club meeting readin this rigth now<br /><br />evry1s question is how do we know the room is gettin bigger/ aint the room just the same just the kids moving away from each other repelled by each ohters smell/

 

[dougum3882]

Ben, remember that the galaxies aren't just moving around, but they are MOVING AWAY FROM EACH OTHER. What happens if your classmates all move away from each other (and not just moving around in a circle or just chaning spots with each other)? Eventually, you will run out of room. You are bounded by the walls of the room which is different from space. The galaxies are moving away from each other but there is no known "wall" that will stop them from moving away from each other.

 

[ben89]

thankx 2 dougam3822 4 the exxelent discription/ tho i"m not gettin it cuz evenif the galaxies move away from each ohter it dont mean the universe aint alreddy big 2 begin with n the galaxies have all the room in the world 2 move/<br /><br />how do we know

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">thankx 2 dougam3822 4 the exxelent discription/ tho i"m not gettin it cuz evenif the galaxies move away from each ohter it dont mean the universe aint alreddy big 2 begin with n the galaxies have all the room in the world 2 move/ <br /><br />how do we know</font><br /><br />The distant between matter particles is finite.<br /><br />Take that finite distance and divide that distance by the speed of the expansion (also finite). From there, you get the time when the matter was together.<br /><br />The redshift caused by the expansion increases proportional with distance, until you get to really large distances.<br /><br />http://anzwers.org/free/universe/redshift.html

 

[ben89]

thank u 2 kmarina86 4 the grafh/ eventho itll take the colective brainpower of all the kidz in our club 2 understand the math/ <br /><br />there is no question the unverse is expanding then? this is the excepted thoery/

 

[kmarinas86]

<font color="yellow">there is no question the unverse is expanding then? this is the excepted thoery</font><br /><br />There are a minority of people who question the expanding universe idea. But such explanations must be ones that forbid certain things from happening. These things, if found, would discredit the theory. However, if they cannot be found, the theory cannot be proven false.<br /><br />According to Special Relativity, increased velocity means a large shift in the light, which can go either way: either positive, to the high-energy end of the electromagnetic spectrum, or negative, towards the red end of the electromagnetic spectrum. This depends on the velocity. In the case of the Big Bang Theory, there is a redshift of galaxies that is proportional to distance for the most part. Only at high relative velocities does the redshift climb asymptotically. This is defined as:<br /><br />z=sqrt[(c+v)/(c-v)]-1<br /><br />Where v, the velocity of the galaxies, is /> 0<br />Where c, the speed of light in vacuum, is 299,792,458 m/s<br />http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=c<br />Where z, is the redshift, which is 0 when velocity is 0, and close to infinity when v is close to c (i.e. c-v is just above 0).<br /><br />v=Hubble Constant*Distance=(km/s)/megaparsec<br /><br />"(km/s)/megaparsec" can be converted to "(distance/time)/distance" or "1/time"<br /><br />1/Hubble Constant=Hubble Time, or the Age of the Hubble Universe<br /><br />According to General Relativity, a stronger change in gravitational field for a photon means a bigger shift in the photon's frequency. The factor of this change is defined as:<br /><br />1/sqrt(1-R/r)<br /><br />R is shorthand for the Schwarzschild radius of an object.<br /><br />A black hole is an object whose event horizon equals the Schwarzschild radius.<br /><br />A mathematical event horizon, a surface where light cannot return, has the radius of

 

[ben89]

thamk u 2 kmarinas86 eventho i"m still shakin my head tryin 2 follow/ <br /><br />i"m preety sure itll bring some of the kidz in our sceince club 2 tears when they see it/ there just as furstrated as i am. n the substitute teacher is a idiot<br /><br />maybe we can bring in a arihtmatician '<br />maybe theres a nonmath expanding explaination/