Phoenix Mars Lander, a look back, post mission.

3488 · Nov 21, 2008

I am finding it a little difficult to let Phoenix go, but I have found these amazing Phoenix videos of EDL, etc.What were your favourite findings? What will you remember? SE7EN Minutes of Terror. 5' 7".Delta 2 Launches Phoenix Mars Lander.  5' 11". Nerves & Joy Phoenix Landing. 4' 16". Phoenix, Earth & Mars Analogue. Long Video. 48'50". Phoenix A Tribute. 2' 30".A few bits I have done.First ever landscape view from the Martian Arctic region. Sol 0 @ 17:09 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/12/10/7c9aee1e-ccd1-4107-9af0-7642602d178e.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Looking WNW in colour, Sol 0 shortly after touchdown. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/9/f57f3e3b-e627-46df-b96c-a91640fe2797.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Looking North of colour Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/2/852278ce-e7e8-4512-82c8-284330ad9cc1.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Looking East of colour Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/1/8eba720e-f261-4d16-a19f-b805de9c299d.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Looking South of colour Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/13/f208c319-38a2-4e06-9d12-5beb3681b1df.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Looking West of colour Panorama. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/3/10/836e6ec1-6b2b-4608-ba72-37eead7a7a2b.Medium.jpg" alt="" />28 degree wide view looking due north. Martian North Pole is approx 1,301 KM / 809 Miles away dead centre. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/0/9/f091914f-36d2-4d0e-b9fc-6ed24166ff8d.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> 28 degree wide view looking due south. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/10/863d36c6-8e3b-4ea1-aa75-b598e5df9ee2.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Hills in the Southwest. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/12/2d679a79-26b3-47d6-8cf9-6bcc453df0c8.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Detail of hills in the SW in colour. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/5/ba5e9355-f277-4cf4-b529-ca94e1b78f24.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Hills in the NW.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/1/3/f19b4dec-0aab-4cbf-b3b6-539b1eae8c6d.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Large Swathe from SE to SSE. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/6/4/86851728-fccf-42dd-a4c8-178dd42daa40.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Centred on large boulder at Azm 151.58 degrees. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/8/17fdc25a-42ac-4ab4-b8f5-62c9b277f52a.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> First ever Midnight Sun seen on Mars. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/15/0975d215-64dc-41d9-bf5c-9edc0db9d815.Medium.jpg" alt="" />First Midnight Sun ever seen on Mars full sequence. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/11/0d17a245-a399-4f95-bb95-8f771fcf8531.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Frost on morning of Sol 79. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/12/4e165413-4cac-4db9-8c93-56b9c87aa864.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Large Dust Devil passing WNW on Sol 127. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/11/13/fbd82445-2cd9-4f9b-ad00-3c8445958304.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  The end in sight. Frost before sunset & thicker by dawn. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/1/0a125ef9-36d9-4cb5-912c-a24325e8f639.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

neuvik · Nov 21, 2008

Excellent Thread Andrew!    She sure did a great job and it was a lot of fun reading all the updates to the threads on the subject!    Lets hope for more work horses!  The    "Phoenix, Earth & Mars Analogue. Long Video. 48'50"."      Video is well worth the time, a nice sum of the history of Phoenix, its workings, and the live science. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> I don't think I'm alone when I say, "I hope more planets fall under the ruthless domination of Earth!"SDC Boards: Power by PLuck - Ph**king Luck </div>

nimbus · Nov 21, 2008

Holy Cow is my favorite.. As expected as it was.. It's as great a sight as finaly seeing exoplanets directly

It's too bad we didn't get to see more substantial snow on the ground. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

3488 · Nov 21, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Excellent Thread Andrew!    She sure did a great job and it was a lot of fun reading all the updates to the threads on the subject!    Lets hope for more work horses!  The    "Phoenix, Earth & Mars Analogue. Long Video. 48'50"."      Video is well worth the time, a nice sum of the history of Phoenix, its workings, and the live science. Posted by neuvik</DIV>Thanks neuvik.Phoenix did a superb job, of that there is no doubt. Yes that video really is quite something. We still have both MERs, Opportunity still very active & Spirit in an improving situation after the dust storm, in Merdiani Planum & Gusev Crater respectively.Also before very much longer, MSL should be on route. I now think Holden Crater is the front runner, though ?I still hold a torch for Mawrth Vallis, though where ever EDL takes place, it matters not, assuming EDL is successful, MSL will be a fascinating mission. Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Holy Cow is my favorite.. As expected as it was.. It's as great a sight as finaly seeing exoplanets directly

It's too bad we didn't get to see more substantial snow on the ground. Posted by nimbus</DIV>Hi nimbus, yes I agree, Holy Cow, underneath Phoenix was just that. Whilst an icy layer was expected, I think the thrusters would not have exposed some on their own like that.  A major revelation.A few Holy Cow images here, taken at different times.Holy Cow Sol 5 @ 14:47 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/11/de756cfb-aaf3-4c97-ab73-076e46963bb4.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Holy Cow Sol 8 @ 15:03 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/0/a5339e29-e040-472c-9008-dc3e14369154.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Holy Cow Sol 96 @ 18:31 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/9/3/8939b6c3-4363-4bc2-8375-f4aa1f8a6bf5.Medium.jpg" alt="" />  Holy Cow Sol 96 @ 22:30 HRS LMST.  <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/10/627bd671-bf03-424e-9ab3-507d28f08a00.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Holy Cow Sol 97 @ 02:09 LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/13/15/9d449a53-307f-4b28-bfb5-d5e80398ec26.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Holy Cow Sol 97 @ 03:55 LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/10/7a7eafca-7ef5-497b-baa6-0877f4020211.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Holy Cow Sol 142 @ 13:16 HRS LMST. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/5/0/85e567f7-bb91-413a-a0fc-0236b924ab3a.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Frosty landscape on the morning of Sol 131. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/2/15/b2a2be21-116f-48e8-9f64-a5c6ceffcb5d.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Final Weather report on Sol 151. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/10/0/ba32da5b-a454-4b11-80e2-ab3e5736bdda.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

JonClarke · Nov 22, 2008

I recently had confirmation from a friend on the Phoenix team that three MECA and five TEGA samples were run,although moe were collected.  Still more than the minimum required for mission success.Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

3488 · Nov 22, 2008

Replying to:<div class="Discussion_PostQuote">I recently had confirmation from a friend on the Phoenix team that three MECA and five TEGA samples were run,although moe were collected.  Still more than the minimum required for mission success.Jon Posted by jonclarke</div>Thanks Jon.I was not sure how many TEGA ovens had actually successfully cooked their samples. I knew that seven were successfully filled, but not sure how many had actually completed their run. Five was a good total. Three were required for full mission success & one for minimum mission success, so five is well above the maximum criteria.MECA, yes one was required for minimum success & three for maximum, so MECA too was successful.  I would imagine its going to take some considerable time to analyze everything, as it will to analyze all of the images too.Yet many think Phoenix was a failure 'sigh'. Looking west in colour. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/4/d73ff88d-555c-4173-84c9-a982bef2d824.Medium.jpg" alt="" />American Flag & Messages from Earth DVD on Phoenix deck. Sol 2. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/14/12/8e315761-9931-4938-ac79-d4642e8dbba9.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> 30 cm long angular rock, to the south of Phoenix. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/15/12/3f76aec3-e476-4a51-bc01-811764cd31ef.Medium.jpg" alt="" />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Nov 30, 2008

I ahve a question, this is sort of regarding the "Was Phoenix a waste?" thread, but it's already locked.  One of the questions Jon posed was regarding "a rover would have been more suitable?"  My question is, wasn't Phoenix just a basic replica of the old lander previously lost(Mars Polar Lander IIRC)?  If so, could those spare parts have been used on a rover, or would they have not even been compatible since the two craft are fairly different entities?  If that is so, then IMO, the only real waste would have been to let a valuable piece of scienific equipment like Phoenix sit around in storage to collect dust and never be used, as we did gather some very valuable information with it. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

brandbll · Nov 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Holy Cow is my favorite.. As expected as it was.. It's as great a sight as finaly seeing exoplanets directly

It's too bad we didn't get to see more substantial snow on the ground. Posted by nimbus</DIV> Agreed. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

JonClarke · Nov 30, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I ahve a question, this is sort of regarding the "Was Phoenix a waste?" thread, but it's already locked.  One of the questions Jon posed was regarding "a rover would have been more suitable?"  My question is, wasn't Phoenix just a basic replica of the old lander previously lost(Mars Polar Lander IIRC)?  If so, could those spare parts have been used on a rover, or would they have not even been compatible since the two craft are fairly different entities?  If that is so, then IMO, the only real waste would have been to let a valuable piece of scienific equipment like Phoenix sit around in storage to collect dust and never be used, as we did gather some very valuable information with it. Posted by brandbll</DIV>I hope you can see this!  This is a good question, my take is as follows.In principle  there is no reason why instruments such as those carried by Phoenix could not be fitted to a rover.  A rover doing a traverse acorss the martian layered terrain doing Phoenix type experiments would be quite interesting.  But there  are may reasons why it was not feasible.However characterising each site was very time consuming.  Phoenx did not process all the samples it collected at its site, although it certainly exceeded the mission success criteria.  An inside source told me that  5 TEGA and 3 MECA samples were processed.  This is the inevitable condequence of complex onboard experiments of the type that Phoenix did.  So even if the instruments  had been fitted to a rover, it would not have roved. Another aspect is that even if all the work had been completed in the time available (say the 90 day primary mission), there just would not have been the time to do even more site properly.  Another 90 days would be needed just to characterise a second site, and Phoenix did not have that time.Then there is the fact that the northern plains were very uniform.  We know from satellite imagery that there is very little change for several km in every direction.  Even a rover with a very basic and fast surface characterisation payload would not have been able to discovere much new in a 150 day mission to that it would have seen at the landing site.  Remember the MERS have averaged 6 m a day and in 150 days would cover less than 1 km, Add to this that there was no suitable rover chassis (both MER backups are in use) that could be used, assuming that they could be adapted for use in the Arctic.  Building one from scratch would have cost much more than the project specifications.  Remember that Phoenix was a cheap and cheerful Scout mission,not one with an opened ended budget.Of course it is easy to conceive a mission that could travel for 10's of km, characteristig a dozen sites, perhaps more, maing perhaaps a 100 analyses in the process.  It might be nuclear powered and work through the winter, or be able to be sleep through winterest and work each summer.  But such a mission would no longer be Phoenix, but a completely new machine, designed and built from scratch.  It is also be at least as complex as MSL and probably more expensive (two billion, three billion?).So the choice comes down to if Phoenix really was the best choice for the Mars Scout 2003 mission or whether one of the many othe rproposals would have done better.  We will  never knoww.  But what we do know is that Phoenix fulfilled and exceeded its designed goals, and so was a highly succcessful mission. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars Arthur Clarke </div>

brandbll · Dec 2, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I hope you can see this!  This is a good question, my take is as follows.In principle  there is no reason why instruments such as those carried by Phoenix could not be fitted to a rover.  A rover doing a traverse acorss the martian layered terrain doing Phoenix type experiments would be quite interesting.  But there  are may reasons why it was not feasible.However characterising each site was very time consuming.  Phoenx did not process all the samples it collected at its site, although it certainly exceeded the mission success criteria.  An inside source told me that  5 TEGA and 3 MECA samples were processed.  This is the inevitable condequence of complex onboard experiments of the type that Phoenix did.  So even if the instruments  had been fitted to a rover, it would not have roved. Another aspect is that even if all the work had been completed in the time available (say the 90 day primary mission), there just would not have been the time to do even more site properly.  Another 90 days would be needed just to characterise a second site, and Phoenix did not have that time.Then there is the fact that the northern plains were very uniform.  We know from satellite imagery that there is very little change for several km in every direction.  Even a rover with a very basic and fast surface characterisation payload would not have been able to discovere much new in a 150 day mission to that it would have seen at the landing site.  Remember the MERS have averaged 6 m a day and in 150 days would cover less than 1 km, Add to this that there was no suitable rover chassis (both MER backups are in use) that could be used, assuming that they could be adapted for use in the Arctic.  Building one from scratch would have cost much more than the project specifications.  Remember that Phoenix was a cheap and cheerful Scout mission,not one with an opened ended budget.Of course it is easy to conceive a mission that could travel for 10's of km, characteristig a dozen sites, perhaps more, maing perhaaps a 100 analyses in the process.  It might be nuclear powered and work through the winter, or be able to be sleep through winterest and work each summer.  But such a mission would no longer be Phoenix, but a completely new machine, designed and built from scratch.  It is also be at least as complex as MSL and probably more expensive (two billion, three billion?).So the choice comes down to if Phoenix really was the best choice for the Mars Scout 2003 mission or whether one of the many othe rproposals would have done better.  We will  never knoww.  But what we do know is that Phoenix fulfilled and exceeded its designed goals, and so was a highly succcessful mission. Posted by jonclarke</DIV>Thanks for answering my question, very good post with some very good points. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

3488 · Dec 2, 2008

NASA attempts to revive Phoenix are abandoned as Mars enters Solar Conjunction.Phoenix is 'officialy' declared inactive. No signal was ever detected post Sol 157 on Sunday 2nd November 2008, the last time Phoenix was heard from. Final active Sol was Sol 151, Monday 27th October 2008.FWIW, IMO Phoenix was the best choice for the Mars Scout 2003 mission. Getting Phoenix approved after the cancelled Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander mission (which became Phoenix Mars Lander, after modifications for a high latitude site) was not easy. It's worth remembering brandbll, that the upcoming MSL & hopefully to follow ESA ExoMars, are going to be in the tropics. In fact only Viking 2 of the previous successful landers landed outside of the tropics (approx 48 N in Utopia Planitia), but Phoenix was & looks like for quite some considerable time yet, the only to land successfully at a latitude greater than either the Martian Arctic or Antarctic circles (obviously Arctic in Phoenix'x case @ 68 deg 13' N in Scandia Colles), a major first in the exploration of Mars. Phoenix did admirably to earn that honour.Definately R.I.P Phoenix.We thank you. <img src="http://sitelife.space.com/ver1.0/Content/images/store/7/12/f7077f76-18d2-4dab-ac99-03d6364ea244.Medium.jpg" alt="" /> Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

brandbll · Dec 7, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>NASA attempts to revive Phoenix are abandoned as Mars enters Solar Conjunction.Phoenix is 'officialy' declared inactive. No signal was ever detected post Sol 157 on Sunday 2nd November 2008, the last time Phoenix was heard from. Final active Sol was Sol 151, Monday 27th October 2008.FWIW, IMO Phoenix was the best choice for the Mars Scout 2003 mission. Getting Phoenix approved after the cancelled Mars Surveyor 2001 Lander mission (which became Phoenix Mars Lander, after modifications for a high latitude site) was not easy. It's worth remembering brandbll, that the upcoming MSL & hopefully to follow ESA ExoMars, are going to be in the tropics. In fact only Viking 2 of the previous successful landers landed outside of the tropics (approx 48 N in Utopia Planitia), but Phoenix was & looks like for quite some considerable time yet, the only to land successfully at a latitude greater than either the Martian Arctic or Antarctic circles (obviously Arctic in Phoenix'x case @ 68 deg 13' N in Scandia Colles), a major first in the exploration of Mars. Phoenix did admirably to earn that honour.Definately R.I.P Phoenix.We thank you. Andrew Brown.  Posted by 3488</DIV>Did NASA ever activate the microphone on Phoenix and collect any sound? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> You wanna talk some jive? I'll talk some jive. I'll talk some jive like you've never heard! </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 8, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Did NASA ever activate the microphone on Phoenix and collect any sound? Posted by brandbll</DIV> I recall reading that they tried, but it did not work for some reason. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Dec 21, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I recall reading that they tried, but it did not work for some reason. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>Hi Wayne,That is true. An attempt was made, but did not work. IIRC is was a power transfer problem. Hi everyone,A few more bits.Last colour image from Phoenix. Alt -16.73 deg. Azm 126.05 deg. Sol 151 @ 05:17 HR.Morning frost on final morning of Phoenix mission. New view of Phoenix from above, 30 metre by 30 metre area. New view of Phoenix from above. Areomorphic map of Phoenix area.La Mancha Trench. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jan 7, 2009

MRO images Phoenix site on Sunday 21st December 2008.Note that south is at the top. Andrew Brown.  <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

mr_mark · Feb 23, 2009

 They may have discovered liquid water on the lander.  http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,498966,00.html  Great news if true.

gregoire · Feb 24, 2009

I had heard that they might make an attempt to contact the lander in the spring, however improbable the success of such an endeavour. Anyone know if this is true? 

MeteorWayne · Feb 24, 2009

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>I had heard that they might make an attempt to contact the lander in the spring, however improbable the success of such an endeavour. Anyone know if this is true?  Posted by gregoire</DIV> Actually, it's the other way around; if the Lander revives in the spring (October for us IIRC) it will send out an I'm Alive signal.However, you need a microscope to see the difference in odds of that happening and zero

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

Phoenix Mars Lander, a look back, post mission.

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