I
ihwip
Guest
I am interested to know how photons play in the overall gravitational effects in space. Does all the light flying around in the universe create gravitational pull?
supn":3pq4bzd9 said:Subatomic particles do have mass. The electron for instance has mass 9x10^-31. This is because of the charge within the electromagnetic force. The atom is then an effect of the composite of all charges, and is called 'matter'.
As we know, gravity is detected as matter attracts other matter. The more matter, the more gravity. Subatomic energy creating matter, and matter creating gravity, you can say that subatomic energy makes up gravity.
SpeedFreek":3ghtos2i said:But how does any of this relate to photons, which have no mass?
ihwip":1pk84xyz said:I am interested to know how photons play in the overall gravitational effects in space. Does all the light flying around in the universe create gravitational pull?
supn":2bmaua7a said:Photons are like the messengers for the universe to exist -- submicroscopically (atom), microscopically (molecules) and macroscopically (gravity).
How does this work?
To start with, photons are not particles. They are waves (see double slit experiment). We notice those waves as we detect their crests or troughs.
I wrote: "The atom is an effect of the composite of all charges". The question remains: what is 'charge'?
Lightwaves well up from the middle (nucleus), move upward onto the rims and then are spinning on the rims of an atom (electron). 'Charge' is the spinning concentration of lightwaves. The whole is called an atom. Image
Matter is the name we give to combinations of atoms. Matter has mass. Mass depends on the magnitude of the gravitational force acting on matter. Gravitational force is the macroscopic form of the underlying energetic process. Energy that is made up of... photons.
That is the relationship between photons and gravity.
yevaud":3n0xlph6 said:True. The caveat being that it takes a great deal of energy to have the same affect as a concentration of mass. Simple E=MC^2 sees to that (I seem to recollect DrRocket also made this point in another thread).
supn":372u5lsv said:SpeedFreek":372u5lsv said:But how does any of this relate to photons, which have no mass?
Photons are like the messengers for the universe to exist -- submicroscopically (atom), microscopically (molecules) and macroscopically (gravity).
How does this work?
To start with, photons are not particles. They are waves (see double slit experiment). We notice those waves as we detect their crests or troughs.
I wrote: "The atom is an effect of the composite of all charges". The question remains: what is 'charge'?
Lightwaves well up from the middle (nucleus), move upward onto the rims and then are spinning on the rims of an atom (electron). 'Charge' is the spinning concentration of lightwaves. The whole is called an atom. Image
Matter is the name we give to combinations of atoms. Matter has mass. Mass depends on the magnitude of the gravitational force acting on matter. Gravitational force is the macroscopic form of the underlying energetic process. Energy that is made up of... photons.
That is the relationship between photons and gravity.
Saiph":3jt8rik2 said:The photon does exist in the 'gravitational spectrum' as you put it. One of the interesting facts about General relativity is that objects don't need mass to have, or be affected by, gravity.
Photons have energy, and momentum, and thus have mass in that sense. But they don't have 'rest mass' or a physical tangible...um..weight to them. Rest mass is the most compact and efficient way of affecting gravity, but not the only way.
So the small fluctuation in gravity that the energy of a photon creates, travels with it to it's destination.
Unless I too am completely wrong on this account....