Pictures From the Surface of.........

[JonClarke]

Venera 10 image. http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_Catalog.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

The first colour image of the surface of Venus, collected by Venera 13. From http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_Catalog.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Venera 14 image, from http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_Catalog.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

No place like home. Zond 7 colour image of a full Earth rising. Also from http://www.mentallandscape.com/C_Catalog.htm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Apologises for the width. It is difficult to get the panorams to fit.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Thanks for posting the pix Jon. I took the lazy way out for the Russian pix & just posted the link in my first post in the thread. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[brellis]

hi Jon<br /><br /><font color="yellow">A scene by the most successful robot rover in history, Lunokhod 2, from http://selena.sai.msu.ru </font><br /><br />wow, you ain't kiddin'! That was a big rover, and it managed to roll 37km (23 miles) across the moon.<br /><br />The Venera story is really cool also. Thanks to you and Boris for reacquainting me with these spacecraft. Makes my day! <img src="/images/icons/cool.gif" /><br /><br />The engineers behind Pathfinder and the current MERs give heaps of credit to the Viking program. I wonder how much detailed reference they could have had from these Soviet programs? When did we start sharing space secrets? <br /><br />I'm such a <i>peacenik</i> - I wish humanity would immediately end all war and use some of the money we save to fund space exploration, so we can broaden our collection of "Pictures from the surface of..."<br /><br />They're trying to produce a Europa-type lander for $1Billion. If we could solve Iraq, we could launch a few of those every month! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#ff0000"><em><strong>I'm a recovering optimist - things could be better.</strong></em></font> </p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Even now we would be hard put to better the Veneras, Lunas and Lunakhods. The biggest improvement has been in reliability and high resolution imagery. But often the quality of the Russian imagery has been let down by the poor processing of the times and poor production. With modern processing and digital representation some at least are quite extraordinary.<br /><br />Imagine the territory that could be covered by a rover with the capability of Lunokhod and the reliability of the MERs - it could cover 100's of km. And yes, count me among the peacniks, a billion dollar mission a year would be nice! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

you know that Lunokhod translates literally as Moonwalker<br /> (Luna = Moon and khod or more properly chod (from the word<br /> 'chodit') = to walk)<br /><br />in your picture above, the third in the series which shows - "The <br />descent stage of Lunokhod 1" it looks as as if that decent stage <br />has rail for unloading the rover to the right but no tracks in the <br />sand go from there, instead the rower came down off it on the <br />left side, I am left wandering what those ramp rails were there <br />for <br /><br />also I see that slow going of today's rowers as a sign of being <br />way too overcarefull, everybody want's to have their back well <br />covered (which is symptomatic of the whole NASA programs <br />today and that's why things move at snail pace which includes <br />decades before making that manned trip to Mars etc)<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>n your picture above, the third in the series which shows - "The descent stage of Lunokhod 1" it looks as as if that decent stage has rail for unloading the rover to the right but no tracks in the sand go from there, instead the rower came down off it on the left side, I am left wandering what those ramp rails were there for<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Rails on either end, I think, so they could drive it off either side- thus avoiding the embarrassment of it being marooned if they'd landed next to a big rock on the disembark side <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>also I see that slow going of today's rowers as a sign of being way too overcarefull, everybody want's to have their back well covered (which is symptomatic of the whole NASA programs today and that's why things move at snail pace which includes decades before making that manned trip to Mars etc)<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />There's little funding, so the few rovers that can be sent are precious. One slip, and you've lost all the wonderful data we haven't lost (perhaps through care). I'd like to see swarms of the things all over Mars and, hey, if you lose one who cares? but that's not realistically fundable I guess <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /><br /><br />The reliance on single enbasketed eggs scares me no end. One stray bit of space debris, and we've lost New Horizons, or Cassini. I'd like to see every mission consist of at least two craft- ideally each built by different contractors using different materials suppliers. How much would it cost to send a couple more rovers, or another Galileo? Not much in the grand scheme of things, compared to that ridiculous space station thing.<br /><br />The next Mars Rover is a big mobile lab. It's going on its own. If it falls down a sinkhole or they fitted it with dodgy leaky capacitors or something, that's it. They really ought to be packi

 

[vandivx]

seems you hit the nail on head, how damn clever those Russians have been I say <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br />I remember seeing some new rovers with spider wheeled legs <br />on all sides so they can topple over and still go on, if they can <br />topple at will might come handy too<br /><br />the secret of Lunokhod being able to drive so much might be the<br /> onboard power ready to use but when used up it might not <br />move no more whereas today's rovers move on solar power and <br />that limits how much you can move I suppose but the upside is <br />you can keep going for years, we need onboard nuclear power <br />generators<br /><br />I find those pics from Venus surface amazing given the 90 <br />atmosphere or so pressure out there that crushed earlier <br />Russian probe before it could land, I don't know that we got any<br /> picture like that from later missions at all<br /><br /><br />sometimes you wish that the cold war and the competetion it <br />promoted stayed on, maybe these days Russia might want to <br />show some muscle again<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

lBoris<br />link to original<br />http://marsrovers.nasa.gov/gallery/press/spirit/20040311a/11-ml-02-earth-A067R1.jpg<br />[this picture was taken one hour before sunrise]<br /><br />Another one, one of my favorites from MERs, very Tatooine-like: this time the sunset (blue!) over Gusev crater.

 

[JonClarke]

The Lunokhods were solar powered too, just like the MERs. The reason they moved so fast was the avanatages of direct teleoperation in real time possible rather than the very slow autonomous systems used on Mars.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Jaxtraw, About Moon visible to unaided eye, I am computing it (unless someone already knows).<br />This being said MERs have no telecope. But Mars Global Surveyor had.<br />It is not exactly a view from from surface, but this has been taken by MGS in 2003 from the orbit of Mars, at the occasion of a conjunction between Earth and Jupiter.<br />On this picture,(400k so please download it from link below and zoom), you have on the same picture, all 6 resolved as disks, the Earth (with South and North Americas distinguishable), the Moon, Jupiter, Europa, Ganymede and Callisto.<br /><br />http://www.msss.com/mars_images/moc/2003/05/22/

 

[h2ouniverse]

The upper part of the picture (Earth + Moon)

 

[h2ouniverse]

and the lower part of the picture (Jovian subsystem) , at same scale as the Earth Moon picture (Jupiter apparent diameter is less than 1.5 times the one of the Earth)

 

[h2ouniverse]

Jaxtraw,<br />I reckoned quickly that max magnitude of Earth, Moon viewed from Mars would be about -3 for Earth, +1 for Moon, at about a quarter of phase (25%). At max Earth-Moon elongation (not like in Mars Global surveyor picture!), they would appear separated by about 1/4 of a °, i.e. half full-moon apparent diameter = /> Given that Mars has almost no atmosphere, and if there is no dust storm, our Moon should be well visible at naked eye, even far from this"optimum" phase. And this despite of its poor albedo.<br /><br />Best regards.

 

[JonClarke]

Yes, I was aware that Lunokhod meant "Moon walker". And a great imaginative name it is too. It is the same with Voskhod, it is derived from the Vostok spacecraft and was intended primarily for EVA missions. Hence Voskhod - east walker. Or, since Vostok (east) came to mean spaceship, space walker.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[Boris_Badenov]

H2Ouniverse, thank you, this is the most inspiring photo on this thread so far. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[vandivx]

oh well <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> you're exception perhaps, I thought native <br />English wouldn't know these things but I was proven wrong<br /><br />Russians are experts on such imaginative names when the name<br /> follows the function but you quickly run out of such simple and<br /> direct names <br /><br />Luna is known perhaps because it comes from Latin (google: <br />"Luna gives us “lunar†from Latin lucere, to shine")<br /><br /><br />for others here who don't yet know, another popular name in <br />Russian space programs is Mir which means either 'world' or <br />'peace', which one it is depends on the context I believe<br /><br /><br />and about that fast moving Lunokhod, you must be right<br /> as I was just guessing, how did it end up - got stuck in some<br /> ditch? more likely the solar power was only supplementary to <br />batteries and when those were gone the sunpower itself couldn't<br /> keep them going perhaps?<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Mir also means "community" or villiage, quite a few small Russian towns are XXXXX Mir. A great name for a spacve station all round.<br /><br />As is often the case, nobody knows why the two Lunokhods stopped working. Sooner or later something critical goes on the system, and that's it.<br /><br />The Lunokhods would of course had batteries for power management, just like the MERs, but I have not read anything to suggest that the solar panels were simply supplemental to batteries.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[3488]

Hi Jon,<br /><br />AFAIK, the Lunokhods used their solar panels as part of the primary power source, as well<br />as charging batteries. <br /><br />Back then, the batteries would not have been able to produce ALL of the power required,<br />unless the batteries were the same size as the Lunokhods themselves.<br /><br />Nowadays, its very different with light weight materials, energy efficient electronics, small but very powerful<br />computers, as in the MERs, etc.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I agree Andrew. <br /><br />Power management would be very similar to the MERs. The rover lands with charged batteries, the batteries power the motors, solar panels charge the batteries. RHUs keep the system warm, at night.<br /><br />Not onlybatteries were more clunky then, also solar panels. Even so the Lunokhods averaged 100 m or more a day and could drive at 1-2 kph. Of course solar energy is more intense on the Moon than Mars.<br /><br />Good night<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[3488]

Of course, solar intensity on the Moon is at least twice that, as on Mars.<br /><br />Lunar 'Solar Eclipse' as seen by Surveyor 3 (later visited by Apollo 12),<br />on 24th April 1967.<br /><br />Earth passing in front of the Sun as seen from the Moon.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Hey Jon, just a suggestion. And VanDivix, and H2O Universe, et.al.<br />In threads that have gotten wide due to large images,<br />Keep you sentances short, or hit return/enter after 80 charachter or so have passed and there's a comma.<br /><br />It makes it easier to real without scrolling. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>