Pulsar Density

[Hawkster]

<p>Hey, just got 3 questions on how pulsars have stuff so dense back a grain of sand for it would be like picking up a small mountain... how can things get that dense and then would have a increased mass for gravity to take effect?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>if so can this be used as a advantage to get the super heavy materail?</p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>My 3rd question is can we use ionized particles in a ion engine to fuel power? </p><p>&nbsp;</p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#808080">Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.</font> </div>

 

[UFmbutler]

<p>For #1 and 2, you need to understand the concept of degeneracy.&nbsp; Neutron stars are supported by neutron degeneracy...basically the neutrons are all packed together as closely as they possibly can.&nbsp; To reach such high densities though you need a supernova, which would prevent us from ever creating any such material on Earth.&nbsp; You can read up on the basics hers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_matter &nbsp; ...though that is not the whole picture, and to be honest when I see any explanation that starts out with "Imagine".&nbsp; Something about that structure of explaining seems condescending to me, as is starting every following sentence with "Now".&nbsp; But anyways, thats just a wikipedia rant and nothing to do with the subject.&nbsp; It should give you the general idea. </p><p>&nbsp;</p><p>As for your third question, I don't know, I always thought that was just some sci-fi concept.&nbsp; I'm probably wrong though...I'm not very knowledgeable about space travel related things. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Hey, just got 3 questions on how pulsars have stuff so dense back a grain of sand for it would be like picking up a small mountain... how can things get that dense and then would have a increased mass for gravity to take effect?</DIV></p><p>You might look up "Neutron star formation".&nbsp; The high density is related to the density of the material itself, in this case densely packed neutrons.</p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>if so can this be used as a advantage to get the super heavy materail?</DIV></p><p>The idea is that the increased density allows it to hold together while spinning at a very high rate of speed.</p><p>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>My 3rd question is can we use ionized particles in a ion engine to fuel power? &nbsp; <br /> Posted by Hawkster</DIV></p><p>The individual ions in the thuster are accelerated by EM fields to very high rates of speed as they exit the thruster.&nbsp; It works on the standard principle that every action creates an equal and opposite reaction.&nbsp; The emission of the ions causes the spacecraft to move in the opposite direction.&nbsp; The thrust is typically very small in an ion thruster, but it is cummulative over time.&nbsp; The ion thruster tends to be many times more efficient at fuel use than a rocket engine and it's small thrust is able to be sustained over longer periods of time.&nbsp;&nbsp; Because the particles exit at high velocity, the spacecraft is also capable of reaching high velocities. </p><p>While it doesn't generate enough thrust to help us exist Earth's atmosphere, an ion thrust is very adept at helping us get around interplanetary, and potentially interstellar space. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The idea is that the increased density allows it to hold together while spinning at a very high rate of speed.<br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>It is more accurate to state that it is the gravitational forces that hold it together... not the density.&nbsp; Take Jupiter for example.&nbsp; On average, it is less dense than the Earth and has a higher rotational speed.&nbsp; What is happening is the celestial body is finding a balance between gravity and the centrifugal pseudoforce.&nbsp; The average density of the object is a by-product of the two. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It is more accurate to state that it is the gravitational forces that hold it together... not the density.&nbsp; <br /> Posted by derekmcd</DIV></p><p>I stand corrected. &nbsp; It would have been more accurate to state that gravity (not density) held it together.&nbsp; The high density of the material simply allows a lot of mass to be packed into a relatively small size. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>The high density of the material simply allows a lot of mass to be packed into a relatively small size. <br /> Posted by michaelmozina</DIV></p><p>Once again.&nbsp; The density of a pulsar is a by-product... it doesn't "allow" anything.&nbsp; What allows such a density is the graviational force 'squeezing' subatomic particles together which are, in turn, supported by the degenerate pressure (to keep them from further collapse) as defined by the Pauli exclusion principle. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[Hawkster]

thanks guys but cant u power a big turbine with ions? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#808080">Every so often, I like to stick my head out the window, look up, and smile for a satellite picture.</font> </div>

 

[michaelmozina]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>thanks guys but cant u power a big turbine with ions? <br /> Posted by Hawkster</DIV></p><p>Um, maybe, but I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that.&nbsp; Ion thrusters tend to work *without* a turbine. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>thanks guys but cant u power a big turbine with ions? <br /> Posted by Hawkster</DIV></p><p>The title of the thread is "Pulsar Density".&nbsp; You might be better suited by starting a new thread in 'Space Business & Technology'. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>

 

[kelvinzero]

Would neutronium remain in that form if it were no longer under pressure? Or would it just be neutrons with no attractive force to keep them together?

 

[derekmcd]

<p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Would neutronium remain in that form if it were no longer under pressure? Or would it just be neutrons with no attractive force to keep them together? <br /> Posted by kelvinzero</DIV></p><p>We had a pretty good discussion about this very thing in <font size="2"><strong>this thread</strong></font>. </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div> </div><br /><div><span style="color:#0000ff" class="Apple-style-span">"If something's hard to do, then it's not worth doing." - Homer Simpson</span></div> </div>