Radiation Vaccine: This may change space exploration!

[mikejz]

From: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200606/s1654796.htm<br /><br /><font color="yellow">Scientists in the United States say it may soon be possible to vaccinate emergency workers against the effects of a nuclear explosion. <br /><br />The researchers have found that a form of gene therapy appears to protect mice from the effects of exposure to radiation.<br /><br />Ever since the September 11 attacks on the United States, there have been growing concerns that terrorists may attempt to explode a crude nuclear device, called a "dirty bomb". <br /><br />Experts say that such a bomb, made up of nuclear waste wrapped around a conventional explosive, could disperse large amounts of radiation over a city area and that significant numbers of people would die within 30 says of exposure. <br /><br />Researchers at the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine have been trying to develop a treatment that would protect emergency workers and others who respond to the scene of such an explosion. <br /><br />In experiments with mice they used a tiny artificial sac to deliver a protective compound to every cell. <br /><br />Twenty-four hours later the mice were exposed to doses of whole body radiation. <br /><br />Those that had been given the gene therapy survived. <br /></font><br /><br />Can't find any confirmation, but if true this might make space exploration far easier and safer.

 

[qso1]

Its a step in the right direction to be sure. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Sounds very interesting. I wonder how effective it is against heavy ions (i.e. cosmic rays) which are the biggest problem for long term spaceflight?<br /><br />jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[silylene old]

I remember this concept from <i>Star Trek</i>. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><em><font color="#0000ff">- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -</font></em> </div><div class="Discussion_UserSignature" align="center"><font color="#0000ff"><em>I really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function.</em></font> </div> </div>

 

[qso1]

Good question, this is one development worth keeping an eye on. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[vulture2]

Just keep in mind that gene therapy for humans is a ways off, and that superoxide dismutase has only been shown effective in preventing acute radiation sickness due to bone marrow depression, which might concievably be caused by a severe solar flare but isn't caused by cosmic rays, since there flux is much to low. Whether superoxide dismutase has any effect on chronic radiation-induced brain damage or cancer induction (the main hazards of galactic cosmic rays) is unknown.

 

[nyarlathotep]

<font color="yellow">Scientists in the United States say it may soon be possible to vaccinate emergency workers against the effects of a nuclear explosion.<br /><br />Ever since the September 11 attacks on the United States, there have been growing concerns that terrorists may attempt to explode a crude nuclear device, called a "dirty bomb". </font><br /><br />I've heard they've got these new Double Strength Placebos now.

 

[bushuser]

The first forays into human gene therapy have produced mixed results. Some people have seen their conditions stabilize temporarily, or improve. There's been at least one death directly from such a procedure. Given the current regulatory climate in the US, I think you will see something like this from the Chinese or Russians before its offered to our astronauts.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">Given the current regulatory climate in the US, I think you will see something like this from the Chinese or Russians before its offered to our astronauts.</font>/i><br /><br />I think the astronauts are a different breed of people than the typical American, so I don't think lessons from the general public can automatically be applied to them.</i>

 

[josh_simonson]

Quite the contrary, a much bigger deal is made if an astronaut dies than if a policeman or other public servant dies.

 

[nyarlathotep]

For a start, i'm sure most astronauts dont believe that linear-no-threshold crap.

 

[webtaz99]

<font color="yellow">I've heard they've got these new Double Strength Placebos now.</font><br /><br />My placebos can do anything yours can and then some! <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[sonofhippie]

this may be a little off topic but why do navy gunmen have to wear special suits to fire the ships guns?

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">-????????</font>/i><br /><br />They understand that they are taking very serious risks but they choose fly anyways. Too many Americans, IMHO, think that everything should be perfectly safe, and if it isn't, then they want to sue someone.<br /><br />I read articles today that say we will never go to Mars because we cannot get the cancer risk down to some incredibly small level. Yes, people flying across space will get exposed to much more radiation, will have a higher chance of dying sooner, etc. But the idea that "if we cannot get flying to and living on the Moon or Mars to the level of safety of an airline pilot we shouldn't go" IMHO is stupid.</i>

 

[josh_simonson]

I read that same article. The scariest thing was that there is a 600% level of uncertainty about the amount of damage that could be suffered on the trip. Worst case 40% of a persons brain cells would be killed by cosmic rays. <br /><br />Cosmic rays directly kill cells just like a little bullet, I don't think a vaccine is even possible for a physical type of damage like that.<br /><br />When cells are exposed to radiation, it often causes breaks in the DNA and other damage, at that point the cell gives up and dies. This actually prevents cancer by killing cells that could be genetically damaged. A vaccine that inhibits this effect could actually make people far more likely to die of cancer and actually make them worse off than just taking the rads as is.

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>this may be a little off topic but why do navy gunmen have to wear special suits to fire the ships guns?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />My guess would be fire hazard. The ammunition is explosive, and there have been some very (in)famous accidents at sea involving ships' magazines. The guns are reliable and well-built, but they're very powerful, so accidents are likely to get ugly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[nyarlathotep]

lol, 40% +- 600% for the win.

 

[spayss]

"Cosmic rays directly kill cells just like a little bullet, I don't think a vaccine is even possible for a physical type of damage like that."<br /><br /> Correct. It's worse than that, however, in that many impacted cells are not killed but have the codes in the nucleus scrambled and this leads to cancer and other not-so-nice consequences.

 

[spayss]

Radarredux: "I think the astronauts are a different breed of people than the typical American, so I don't think lessons from the general public can automatically be applied to them"<br /><br /> No, they are the same. The physical properties of matter and energy that manifest themselves through radiation (such as deadly heavy ions) don't discriminate between the tissue of astronauts and other organisms.

 

[crix]

Yeah, it was my understanding that cancer as a result of scrambled DNA was the biggest problem to worry about. If that is so I think things are looking bright for human space exploration... I believe cancer will be quite under control within 10 years, and certainly before we launch our first Mars bound mission.

 

[radarredux]

By the way, here is another story on ameliorating the effects of radiation:<br /><br />Coffee could provide shield from radiation<br />http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s31081.htm<br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>...<br />Mr George and his team injected 471 mice with caffeine and exposed them to rays of gamma radiation, enough to kill most mice.<br /><br />But 25 days later, 70 per cent of the mice that received 80 milligrams of caffeine per kilogram of body weight were still alive.<br /><br />In contrast, all 196 mice which had been exposed to the same radiation but had not been given any caffeine died.<br /><br />The researchers said the caffeine reacts with hydroxyl radicals produced by the radiation.<br /><br />This could stop the radicals from damaging cells and prevent body functions from failing.<br />...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote>

 

[subzero788]

Cool now I know what to do if the local nuclear power station goes critical: Drink all the @!#%! coffee I can get my hands on!!

 

[nyarlathotep]

<font color="yellow">Cool now I know what to do if the local nuclear power station goes critical: Drink all the @!#%! coffee I can get my hands on!!</font><br /><br />Careful, more than about 250mg/kg will kill you. You also need to ingest and metabolise it before or very soon after the blast of gamma.<br /><br />A nuclear plant going supercritical wont create that much gamma. What you really want here is iodine, but a little caffeine will keep you awake enough to escape. Only take this much caffeine if you have pre-launch or boost phase warning of an ICBM attack.

 

[robaux]

I'm interested in these cosmic rays. How are they different/similar to what we normally think of when we see the word radiation (a, b, c rad.)? Is this something that is the result of a large particle (like alpha) and therefore shieldable?

 

[spayss]

Not really. Gamma rays are a bit like playing Russian roulette. Gamma rays act like X-rays. There's no electrical charge and being weightless Gamma rays penetrate deeply into the body, or pass through it, creating ions as they collide with atoms along their path. They act the same with any shielding material. One of the problems is that some shielding materials themselves can become dangerous. <br /><br /> No amount of Gamma radiation is safe. It's just a matter of how much is acceptable and below a threshhold of being an issue to be reasonably concerned about. <br />