Ringed planets

robina_williams · Jul 5, 2007

Are there any ringed planets outside the solar system, please?

MeteorWayne · Jul 5, 2007

Probably, since there are so many in our solar system that have them, but we don't yet have the ability to image any exoplanets, so can't prove it one way or the other Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

3488 · Jul 6, 2007

Hi there, I may add that it would be doubtful in any of the 'hot Jupiters' or the 'Hot Neptunes' have any. The solar wind from the parent stars would remove small particals, not to mention these planets, despite their strong gravitational fields, will have very small Hill Spheres, due to the proximity to their parent Suns. So I doubt these will have rings & moons. However, others that orbit further away, absolutely no reason why not. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

robina_williams · Jul 6, 2007

Thank you. Roughly how many light years away from earth would 'Hot Jupiters' and 'Hot Neptunes' be likely to be?

3488 · Jul 6, 2007

Coming to mind 51 Pegasi @ 42 light years away from our Solar System. Also try Upsilon Andromedae @ 52 Light years away. How about Tau Bootis @ 51 Light years away? Or 55 Cancri @ 47 Light years away? There is 109 Piscium. Or how about Zeta Leporis, orbited by a monster of an asteroid belt? Try the links above. How close they actually are to reality or how many of these planets really exist is open to considerable doubt, but are based on serious scientific research. I chose those specifically, because all of those stars are visible to the naked eye. Of course planets have been found orbiting stars that are far too faint, but the ones above can be found easily if you know the constellations. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

robina_williams · Jul 6, 2007

Thank you so much, Andrew. That's really helpful.

3488 · Jul 6, 2007

You are more than welcome. I have dug a few more out. Mu Arae. Beta Pictoris. Iota Draconis. A planet with a Red Giant Sun. PSR 1257+12. A Pulsar with three planets. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

weeman · Jul 7, 2007

Thanks for the interesting links <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> I was not very familiar other solar systems. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

dragon04 · Jul 7, 2007

Considering that we've discovered many solar systems in the "neighborhood" and that our own solar system contains multiple planets with rings, I think it would be fair to assume that countless planetary systems have ringed planets. Will any of them be as stark and prominent as Saturn's rings? Dunno. Will we find exoplanets closer to their primary than Saturn, or even Jupiter with rings? I'd think so. At one time, and for centuries, we assumed that only one planet in our solar system had rings around it. Pleasantly, we've found that to be not the case. I think ringed planets are probably common. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!". </div>

robina_williams · Jul 7, 2007

That's wonderful -- thanks so much. May I ask now, please, if there is any likelihood that a planet (any planet, ringed or not) might orbit so far from its sun that the sun would not actually be visible from the planet? Or would a sun always be visible to an orbiting planet however far away it is?

nimbus · Jul 7, 2007

Well, the sky is full of faraway stars' whose planets we can't see. So a more likely case would be for the planet's sun to be dim enough to not be easily discerned from the rest of the stars in the sky. Being so far away from a sun as bright as ours, for example, that it's no different from any other star would probably put the planet under your feet outside of that sun's "ownership", either nearer another star's territory, or in an interstellar void. In either of these last two cases the planet wouldn't orbit the star anymore. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 7, 2007

That's an interesting question. I guess the best way to answer that will be to figure how bright the sun appears from the Oort cloud, our sun's fartest orbiting objects. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

weeman · Jul 7, 2007

May I ask now, please, if there is any likelihood that a planet (any planet, ringed or not) might orbit so far from its sun that the sun would not actually be visible from the planet? Or would a sun always be visible to an orbiting planet however far away it is? Planets may be so far from their star that it simply appears as a brighter star in the night sky. Pluto has an average distance from the sun of about 40 AU. The sun would be a large bright star in the sky, shining with a magnitude of about -19.00. The sun from Earth has a magnitude of about -26.50. Not a huge difference between the two, but definitely noticable. So, if you venture out even farther beyond Pluto, say to the most distant Kuiper Belt objects (or farther), the sun will appear more and more faint. Sedna exists at a distance that is much, much farther from the sun than Pluto. In fact, it has an average distance of about 70-80 AU. Sedna was discovered in 2003, and has an estimated mean distance of about 8 billion miles from the sun. The sun would be even more faint than it is from Pluto. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Techies: We do it in the dark. "Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity." -Albert Einstein </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 7, 2007

Actually the 7.5 magnitude difference means the sun is 150 times brighter at earth than at Pluto. I'd call that a huge difference. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

nimbus · Jul 7, 2007

I don't know how accurate Celestia is, and it's the first time I do this, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong: This is the sun from Sedna's furthest orbit. This is the sun from about 50kAU, the estimated outer edge of the Oort cloud. The brown ellipse is Sedna's orbit. Both are seen in a 30 degree field of view ("1.00x") with Magnitude set to 6.05. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 7, 2007

You've got some bad distances entered there. the first one is 0.79298 LY which equals 50,114 AU. That would be the Oort Cloud That shows the sun as Mag -3.24, about 4 times dimmer than Venus is right now. The second is 985 AU=0.015 LY, and shows the Sun as Mag -11.8, about as bright as a full moon is from earth. That would be Sedna at aphelion. I think you just got your labels reversed. The first should be Oort Cloud, the second from Sedna at aphelion. (BTW, I have Sedna's aphelion as 907 AU, but new data may have come in to refine the eccentricity. I'll check) So from the Oort cloud, the sun and Alpha Centauri would be of comparable brightness. The sun would still be the brightest object in the sky, though, by a considerabel margin. Nothing else other than Alpha Centauri and Sirius would even be close. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

nimbus · Jul 7, 2007

Thanks, I did mix up the tags when I saved the images. Is the magnitude correct? I don't know how to scale Celestia's "magnitude" against the regular +- apparent magnitude, so I set it to 6 thinking it was what our naked eye sees. -Nevermind, I see <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Jul 7, 2007

It seems to give the numbers as apparent and actual magnitude which looks right to me. Why don't you go back and edit the labels, then I'll edit my comments to reflect the change. Wayne <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

nimbus · Jul 7, 2007

Thanks <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

robina_williams · Jul 8, 2007

Well, at that distance, would the sun be seen as a speck in the sky from Sedna? Would it be possible to have a planet orbiting so far from its sun that the sun would appear as just a speck?

nimbus · Jul 8, 2007

Robina, a sun could only be that dim to its orbiting planet(s) if it were very dim. There are some types of stars that may be dim and massive enough to keep planets in orbit far enough to appear as just a speck in the sky, but I don't know enough to guess for sure.. This is what our sun (labeled 'Sol' in the picture) looks like from as far as Sedna orbits. Sedna's on the lower right corner. The farthest known objects known to orbit our sun are known as the Oort cloud, and from that distance, our sun looks like this. So if our sun were both dimmer and more massive (allowing planets to orbit further out than our solar system's do), I think it might only seem like just any other star in the sky. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

robina_williams · Jul 9, 2007

Oh, I see. Thank you. And thanks for the links.

3488 · Jul 13, 2007

How about this? Sirius B as seen from Sirius A. Magnitude -13.15. Friday 13th July 2007. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 13, 2007

Post deleted by 3488 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

3488 · Jul 13, 2007

Or about this? Proxima Centauri as seen from Alpha Cenauri A. Magnitude +4.63. Note how Aldebaran / Alpha Tauri appears truly embedded within the Hyades. Saturday 14th July 2007. Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> "I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before". Linda Morabito on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.http://www.launchphotography.com/ http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearthhttp://web.me.com/meridianijournal </div>

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