<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>"HLV...the loads when it would take tens of launches just to set up a Moon base, let alone staff it and supply it..."<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Ah, and here's, IMHO, is The Rub. Economy-wise: A *sustainable* and *self-perpetuating* (key words) program needs low-cost, but *frequent* *traffic*. Paradox? The optimal size of the package will be determined by trial and error, supply and demand, push-and-pull of the market, but is *not* the crux of the matter at all! A secondary consideration at most! (That is if the VSE is to be not another 'flags and footprints' rush program, but, as I hope, another help from the government to create whole markets (like the freeway network, railroads, computers, etc....) Not one-shot gargantuan deliveries of whole bases, and that's it. Rather, *enable* a self-perpetuating circle of low-cost small/large/whatever package deliveries of ingredients to the moon/Mars bases which should strive to be as self sufficient as possible (at least in terms of the propellant/energy generation). Apologies for (over)stressing words, but this point often seems to escape the 'wow, let's put together a really huge rocket to launch a whole moon base in one shot' crowd. <br /><br />And where is NASA in this picture? Of course exploring, "boldly going...", starting up bleeding edge technologies, opening markets, etc... NOT doing the routine HLV and what not deliveries... (my picture of the future anyway)<br />