RpK to build K-1 @ NASA Michoud (New Orleans)

docm · Mar 30, 2007

Does this mean the "fix" is in for COTS? Sure sounds like it <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> SpaceRef article.... <blockquote>In reply to:<hr />PRESS RELEASE Date Released: Wednesday, March 28, 2007 Source: Rocketplane Kistler Oklahoma City, OK, March 29, 2007 – Rocketplane Kistler, Inc. (RpK) announced today that a Space Act Agreement (SAA) has been established with the NASA Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) to use NASA's Michoud Assembly Facility (MAF) in New Orleans, LA for the assembly of the K-1 Space Transportation System. The agreement between NASA and RpK will employ up to 200 highly skilled workers at the Michoud facility, with another estimated 100 RpK subcontractor personnel residing in New Orleans during assembly and checkout phases. Randy Brinkley, President of RpK, said, "The NASA Michoud Assembly Facility has proven itself to have exceptional people and facilities. We are very pleased with the progress being made by the very talented team at Michoud. We hope the K-1 Space Transportation System is the first of many commercial space programs to utilize this unique facility." Lockheed Martin will assemble and perform system testing of both first and second stages of the K-1 Space Transportation System at MAF. Additionally, they will assemble and check out both the pressurized and un- pressurized cargo modules. These cargo modules will demonstrate RpK's ability to safely and reliably berth with the International Space Station as part of NASA's Commercial Orbital Transportation System (COTS) program. /><hr /></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 30, 2007

Remember that as Dr. Griffin continues to build his political rockets, he has another enormous political task to perform, and that is the transitioning of NASA's workforce, internal and contractor. These are in fact unique skills and unique facilities at Michoud, and I am very happy for the folks down there to have a little bit of a sense of future stability. I'm sure you're at least partly joking about "the fix is in", and I suppose that's as good a way to describe what's going on as any. But this is just doing what needs to be done: an important step in an important national priority. Note that the workers are LM, contractors for RpK; presumably insulating RpK from criticism regarding lack of experience. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 30, 2007

Maybe he's just looking for another company to join him to help pay the rent. It seems very likely that there will be excess manufacturing capacity, no? Also there seems to be an implication given that he needs to publicly acknowledge that this is a non-exclusive agreement. A lot of "these guys" see an emerging market with a selection of choices for space adventurers right off the bat. This lets everybody stake out their market share early on, allowing for a stable industry right out of the gate. Rocket guys are not very cut-throat with each other in my observation, I would be worried more about a trash-talking CEO. Maybe that's just me. Also note that Dr. Griffin appears to just have insured the maintenance of the industrial capability to manufacture REALLY BIG LIQUID PROPELLANT TANKS and we all may someday realize that was a very good thing to do. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 30, 2007

LOL, great analogy. "Missed it by *that* much!" Barbara Feldon . . . mmmmmm . . . Beauty and Brains, great set-up gal, brilliant comedic delivery. Great show. C.H.A.O.S. always cracked me up too. Boris and Natasha vs. C.H.A.O.S. - who is the funniest? Yeah, I've followed Kistler since forever too. I know what you're talking about. I've followed them down the hallway this far. If I have to stand with my nose against the last door a bit longer, well so be it. But is it the last door? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> It's looking good. In fact, was this announcement the opening of the last door? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

ragnorak · Mar 30, 2007

Hey did you see about RpK meeting investors in New York? http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/03/29/212949/rocketplane-kistler-seeks-k-1-launcher-angel-investors.html

docm · Mar 30, 2007

Now you know why the LOI was signed last week <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

j05h · Mar 31, 2007

First, did ATK back out of their deal with RpK? Second, what happens when the next Katrina hits that area? (and that goes for External Tanks, too) Last, are they building multiple, new K1s, or just refitting the 75%-complete hangar queen? This is something that no one seems to have answered, on either of their websites or in the press. AFAIK they've never flown anything, the closest is Kistler's old drop tests and Rocketplane's participation in the "Lear-in-the-loop" flights at the X Prize Cup. I don't want to diss on them, but they've had SO LONG to show something, anything. Where's the bird? Even Blue Origin is more public with real hardware. This is great news for New Orleans and MAF, but does it really equate to flying hardware? Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">We need a first generation of pioneers. </div> </div>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

ATK is providing launch ops support, not development.

Swampcat · Mar 31, 2007

"Lockheed Martin will assemble and perform system testing of both first and second stages of the K-1 Space Transportation System at MAF. Additionally, they will assemble and check out both the pressurized and un- pressurized cargo modules." I'm curious about all the help RpK is getting with the K-1. I mean, how much of this vehicle is Rpk actually manufacturing? Or are they simply subcontracting out all the parts using their design? That's what it looks like from their website. Nothing necessarily wrong with that. I just have to compare them to SpaceX who, AFAIK, builds practically all of the Falcon 1 in their own facilities. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> ------------------------------------------------------------------- "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."Thomas Jefferson </div>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

Kistler designed the K-1 and then contracted the construction of the components. RPK is just continuing where it was left off. ATK is going to do the launch ops and Andrews is going to build the spacecraft and do the mission ops. Not much different than what Spacehab did with Boeing and Astrium with their modules and ICC.

spacester · Mar 31, 2007

JO5H, there seems little doubt to me that they don't move into that manufacturing facility unless they plan on buidling lots of new hardware. It would be silly to move the hangar queen if that's all it was about. The bird is still in the egg. Hopefully it will hatch fully developed. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 31, 2007

Yup, it looks to me like they're sub-contacting out all the stuff they don't feel 100% comfortable with. What we are watching these days is what has been talked about for years: A Space Economy, with Big Guys and Little Guys each getting a piece of the pie, where a smaller Gummint pie made bigger by having Private skin in the game, all working more or less together in a semi-organized, reasonably sane overall development effort forging our future in space with massive economic activity here on Earth. Here, the Little Guy is contracting out to the Big Guys. Pretty cool, really. Works for me anyway. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

MeteorWayne · Mar 31, 2007

That sounds like something spacester would say! Uhhh, Oh, he did <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

j05h · Mar 31, 2007

> JO5H, there seems little doubt to me that they don't move into that manufacturing facility unless they plan on buidling lots of new hardware. It would be silly to move the hangar queen if that's all it was about. Well, that's what I'm not sure about. Are they going to fly the original unit, or are they using it to build several new vehicles? In a lot of their media it sounds like they just plan on flying that one tail number, but it's not clear. SpaceDev/BensonSpace are planning several Dream Chasers after the first one (which will also fly). What is the situation with the K1? Will the hangar queen get to fly, or is it an engineering model at this point? josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">We need a first generation of pioneers. </div> </div>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />there seems little doubt to me that they don't move into that manufacturing facility unless they plan on buidling lots of new hardware. It would be silly to move the hangar queen if that's all it was about. <hr /></blockquote> Not so. It is an obvious choose. It is an existing large facility with excess capacity and a trained workforce that happens to be the same contractor as RPK's subcontractor. It is being used as an assembly vs a manufacturing facility. Has nothing to do with the quantity of hardware. Name another facility with the same capabilities and advantages.

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Yup, it looks to me like they're sub-contacting out all the stuff they don't feel 100% comfortable with. {/quote] Huh? The whole vehicle is subcontracted. There isn't any Kistler produced hardware</blockquote>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

They are finishing the original unit

spacester · Mar 31, 2007

Well, I guess I'm saying quantity greater than zero. I'm saying they don't move the hangar queen in there just to finish it. Shouldn't have said "lots of new hardware", you're correct. But at least one other flight vehicle, my enthusiasm leads to me believe more. Just a perspective from a manufacturing engineer. Moving that Hangar queen is not cheap. Of course, Aerospace is still a little new to six sigma practices, so I could be wrong. <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

spacester · Mar 31, 2007

HEY! DON'T EDIT YOUR POST LIKE THAT, OK? I JUST ANSWERED YOUR POST AND COME BACK TO FIND THAT I HAVE JUST ANSWERED A DIFFERENT QUESTION THAT ISN'T DONE HERE, CAPICHE? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr />Well, I guess I'm saying quantity greater than zero. I'm saying they don't move the hangar queen in there just to finish it. Shouldn't have said "lots of new hardware", you're correct. But at least one other flight vehicle, my enthusiasm leads to me believe more. Just a perspective from a manufacturing engineer. Moving that Hangar queen is not cheap. <hr /></blockquote> It was never in a facility where is could be completed. Just parts scattered around

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr /> HEY! DON'T EDIT YOUR POST LIKE THAT, OK? I JUST ANSWERED YOUR POST AND COME BACK TO FIND THAT I HAVE JUST ANSWERED A DIFFERENT QUESTION THAT ISN'T DONE HERE, CAPICHE? <hr /></blockquote> take a chill pill and knock off the caps

MeteorWayne · Mar 31, 2007

It depends on how your post was edited. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

spacester · Mar 31, 2007

I haven't felt the need to use all caps in years. Don't be shifty AND attack my posts at the same time. That's over the line. 'Nuf said, this way you can't claim you haven't been notified about that little detail. no need to respond, I'm done. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

j05h · Mar 31, 2007

> They are finishing the original unit do you know of any plans to build more vehicles? j <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center">We need a first generation of pioneers. </div> </div>

jimfromnsf · Mar 31, 2007

<blockquote>In reply to:<hr /> I haven't felt the need to use all caps in years. Don't be shifty AND attack my posts at the same time. That's over the line. 'Nuf said, this way you can't claim you haven't been notified about that little detail. no need to respond, I'm done. <hr /></blockquote> Shifty? I didn't do anything covert or underhanded. Attack? Boy, you must be thin skinned. Sorry to hurt your feelings. But when you're wrong, you got to expect to be corrected

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