Scott Horowitz, father of "the stick", quits NASA in Oct.

[docm]

I say "father of the stick" because he was the point man selling the concept after The Planetary Society study team (Michael Griffin, William Claybaugh, former astronauts Owen Garriott and Bruce McCandless et al) came up with it. <br /><br />Griffin became NASA administrator, the stick had a series of problems and now there are rumors of even more changes to the design.<br /><br />I guess hoping for a replacement with minimal ATK "exposure" and an open mind towards ELV's would be too much to ask? I hope that at least someone decides to go with the 4 segment + 2x J2 idea. <br /><br />Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Ex-astronaut Scott Horowitz, administrator Rex Geveden departing.</b><br /><br />By Mike Schneider, Associated Press<br /><br />CAPE CANAVERAL, Fla. - Two top NASA officials, including the man in charge of developing new spacecraft for future missions to the moon and Mars, plan to leave the space agency, a spokeswoman said Thursday.<br /><br />Former astronaut Scott "Doc" Horowitz, who heads NASA's Exploration Systems Mission Directorate will leave by October, and associate administrator Rex Geveden will leave at the end of July.<br /><br />The timing of both decisions was coincidental, and neither was asked to leave by NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, said NASA spokeswoman Beth Dickey.<br /><br />Horowitz leaves at a critical time for the development of next-generation spacecraft as NASA finishes signing development contracts and works around a funding squeeze that forced the agency to push back the first manned flight of the new Orion spacecraft to 2015.<br /><br />"It's a critical time, but the directorate is well-poised to go on in his absence," Dickey said.<br /><br />Horowitz said he wants to move back to Utah and spend more time with his family. Dickey said he expects to be an aerospace consultant.<br /><br /><b><font color="yellow">Read: he's going b</font></b></p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

Too radical a change in the Ares I or the Orion CEV would undermine the rationale for selection of the stick.<br /><br />Adding more engines to Ares I undercuts the supposed reliability advantage it has over EELV. Reducing the mass of the CEV undercuts the supposed inadequacy of the EELV to lift the CEV to orbit.<br /><br />If I had to bet on any significant changes to the Ares/Orion design as we know it today, I would bet on the Orion CEV getting cut down in size and mass. That way you still preserve most of the claimed advantages of the 5-segment Ares I design, the most important of which is whatever commonality it has with the Ares V.

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">director of exploration and space for ATK in Utah ... He returned to NASA in 2005 to head up the explorations directorate which is devoted to developing both the Orion and the Ares rockets</font>/i><br /><br />Whoa! I didn't realize the person so intimately tied to the development of Orion's requirements, which ultimately tied it to "the stick" to the exclusion of others, came from the company that makes "the stick". Hmmm...</i>

 

[thereiwas]

The revolving door. This is why I was laughing when I saw that recent press release about ATK getting the abort motor contract. And who was the competition exactly for a locked spec like that?

 

[propforce]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>...leaving NASA in 2004 to become director of exploration and space for ATK in Utah... <br /><br />...He returned to NASA in 2005 to head up the explorations directorate which is devoted to developing both the Orion and the Ares rockets which NASA...<br /><br />...Horowitz said he wants to move back to Utah and spend more time with his family. Dickey said <font color="orange">he expects to be an aerospace consultant. </font><br /><br /><font color="yellow">Read: he's going back for more ATK $$'s </font>.. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />You think he's getting ATK's $$$??? I think he's getting rich on American Taxpayers' $$$......<br /><br />Isn't this revolving door obvious to anyone in the government? I thought there's a ethics office for this kind of stuff....<br /><br />I am sure ATK hired him to insure that they get a piece of Ares contract, i.e., message to Griffin: we take care you buddy and (ah hem...) we will take care of you ... if you take care of us.... <br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[propforce]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>"Whoa! I didn't realize the person so intimately tied to the development of Orion's requirements, which ultimately tied it to "the stick" to the exclusion of others, came from the company that makes "the stick". Hmmm..." <br /><br />I thought that everyone here knew that. <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br /><br />Yup. He's definitely "stick it" to the rest of us.... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">I thought that everyone here knew that.</font>/i><br /><br />Somehow I missed this one. <img src="/images/icons/blush.gif" /><br /><br />In some aspects, a revolving door is natural, especially in a relatively small industry like the rocket field. When NASA needs to hire rocket expertise, it is probably difficult to find someone who isn't working for a company already doing business with NASA. Likewise, when you leave NASA it is probably hard to find a company that needs your expertise that isn't already doing business with NASA.<br /><br />But still... it makes an outside observer question how up and up everything really is.</i>

 

[frodo1008]

If the stick made sense then it might even be OK that this happened. I must admit that initally I was for the idea of using shuttle hardware in this manner. <br /><br />But, then I read that ATK wanted some $3 billion just to develop a five segment motor. Good grief, the ENTIRE contract to Boeing and LM from the Air Force for the development of the EELV systems (including Rocketdynes' entirely new LH/LO RS68 engine) was only $2 billion!!!<br /><br />I am just a 1960's type of idealistic space cadet (that had the extreme event of a lifetime in being able to actually work on the rocket engines that put men on the moon!), so I too knew nothing about these behind the scenes political maneuvering! It really makes me sad to think of a great organization such as NASA caught up in such politics. But then we must remember that NASA's direct bosses are this current administratiion and congress!! It is kind of like Dilbert having the pointy haired boss!!!<br /><br /> <br /><br />

 

[SpaceKiwi]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Whoa! I didn't realize the person so intimately tied to the development of Orion's requirements, which ultimately tied it to "the stick" to the exclusion of others, came from the company that makes "the stick". Hmmm...<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />When I read the story, the cynic in me did wonder about that also. He's making private sector big bucks on the ATK payroll, returns to NASA through the crucial selection process, then bails once ATK has secured the deal. Would it be mischevious of me to suggest he will, in the not too distant future, 'complete the circle' and return to the private sector cash-comfort of ATK? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em><font size="2" color="#ff0000">Who is this superhero?  Henry, the mild-mannered janitor ... could be!</font></em></p><p><em><font size="2">-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</font></em></p><p><font size="5">Bring Back The Black!</font></p> </div>

 

[jimfromnsf]

(name, IS / WAS)<br />• Dittemore, ATK LS president / NASA SSP Director<br />• Rudolphi, ATK HSV VP / NASA MSFC Engineering Director<br />• Panter, ATK Thiokol / NASA ISS Vehicle Manager<br />• Horowitz, ?? / NASA ESMD AA / ATK Director / NASA Astronaut, Exec<br />• Halsell, ATK Ares I US VP / NASA Astronaut, Exec<br />• Rominger, ATK LS VP / NASA Astronaut Chief<br />• Precourt, ATK Biz VP / NASA Astronaut Chief<br />• Bolden, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut, Exec<br />• Chang-Diaz, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut<br />• Jones T., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut<br />• Blaha, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut<br />• Bursch, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut<br />• Barry D., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut<br />• Weber M., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">• Bolden, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut, Exec <br />• Chang-Diaz, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut <br />• Jones T., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut <br />• Blaha, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut <br />• Bursch, ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut <br />• Barry D., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut <br />• Weber M., ATK lobbyist / NASA Astronaut</font>/i><br /><br />I hate to say it, but this lowers my view of the NASA astronaut corps just a little bit.</i>

 

[jimfromnsf]

They aren't so special. Astronaut is just a job. They became "ordinary" in the late 70"

 

[solarspot]

Jim;<br /><br />Isn't that the second time to date on this forum that you have posted a list of various ATK/NASA connections? I seem to remember another like that a fuew months back...<br /><br /><br />

 

[jimfromnsf]

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