Should Britain fund astronauts?

[nacnud]

Should Britain fund astronauts?<font color="yellow"><br />By Helen Briggs <br />BBC News science reporter <br /><br /><b>British astronomers are seeking your views on the merits of sending humans to visit the Moon or Mars.</b><br /><br />The Royal Astronomical Society has set up a commission to investigate whether the UK should break with tradition by funding human spaceflight. The panel of three independent experts wants to hear the opinions of BBC News website readers. <br /><br />Britain must decide in December its commitment to European proposals for future space missions. More. <font color="white"><br /><br />So what do people here think, should we fund astronauts or is our limited money better spent on other projects. Personally I would like to see funding for manned flights but it should come from a separate budget over and above what is currently spent. No science programs should be cut to fund manned flights. If we can’t afford that or are unwilling to spend more then there shouldn’t be UK manned flights, which I would find a great shame.<br /><br />You can also comment on the BBC article here<br /></font></font>

 

[grooble]

What about Africa? <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[nacnud]

<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />African problems can be addressed through changing the way we allocate aid and changing how we trade with them for example let Ghana make chocolate rather than only exporting the raw materials. That is what the Live 8 is all about.<br /><br />Now back to the thread topic...<br /><br />

 

[tom_hobbes]

<font color="yellow">British astronomers are seeking your views on the merits of sending humans to visit the Moon or Mars. </font><br /><br />Hmm, let me think about that a second... hell Yeah! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#339966"> I wish I could remember<br /> But my selective memory<br /> Won't let me</font><font size="2" color="#99cc00"> </font><font size="3" color="#339966"><font size="2">- </font></font><font size="1" color="#339966">Mark Oliver Everett</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Post on the BBC site then, lets tell 'em! <img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" />

 

[craig42]

I've submiited mine <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> Tell'em people

 

[earth_bound_misfit]

I reckon it should be global effort. Not just the Americans, Russians and Chinese. I personally thank the Americans and Russians for what they have acomplised so far for mankind! Now its time for the rest of our countries to fund and further explore. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p> </p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------- </p><p>Wanna see this site looking like the old SDC uplink?</p><p>Go here to see how: <strong>SDC Eye saver </strong>  </p> </div>

 

[jcdenton]

I've always been puzzled by the UK's lack of an astronaut program. They're the only ones as such of all industrial countries if I'm not mistaken. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[shuttle_rtf]

We would have a program, if Maggie Thatcher had funded Hotol. That was one sexy shuttle!

 

[nacnud]

HOTOL was unmanned.<br /><br />The reason for the lack of a manned space flight program in the UK is probably because at one time the government decided that it was better for the economy to fund satellites where the technology developed can be more immediately applied to commercial projects. Also you get a lot more science for the £ from unmanned probes that you do from manned missions.<br /><br />However with the development of the next generation of vehicle times may be changing.<br />

 

[botch]

The UK could have had a well established space program, but unfortunately it didn't quite work out:<br /> <br />In the 60's the UK was a key partner in an organisation called ELDO, which was ESA's predessesor. At that time, the UK had a very respectable level of technology where rocketry was concerned. <br /><br />The UK's Blue Streak ICBM was used as ELDO's first stage for a rocket called Europa. The second and third stages were manufactured by France and Germany, however, these stages never demonstrated an acceptable level of reliability.<br /><br />The UK pulled out of ELDO, and has slowly scaled back its space activities in most areas ever since. It made no financial or engineering contribution to Ariane 5 at all, which really sucks!<br /><br />Regarding the BBC article, I can't help being just a little cynical as to what our government can really do. We've been out of the game too long.

 

[shuttle_rtf]

It would have been a start....which we don't have now.

 

[nacnud]

HOTOL couldn't have worked, the CG changed too much during flight. It was a good idea at the time.<br /><br />Isn't Astriums satellite manufacture based in Stevenage? It might not be glamorous but which is more expensive and therefore profitable these days, the launcher or the payload?<br /><br />There is a lot of expertise still in the UK, you might have to look for it, but I'm sure it's there.<br />

 

[shuttle_rtf]

And British Aerospace...but they've been weeded off over the years.<br /><br />With the money, we'd be able to compete for sure...instead of playing a mini role in ESA which is as British as Pomme de Frite (ooh, the irony <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> )

 

[botch]

I don't mean to sound so negative, especially as i've just joined this community, but for our country to get anywhere in space we would have to have sustained political and financial support. We would likely also have to play second fiddle to the French, a country that we currently don't have a strong relationship with.<br />I just don't see it happening, which is a shame because many people like me support the idea of manned spaceflight.

 

[shuttle_rtf]

A very good post to join with.

 

[alpha_centauri]

Playing second fiddle to the French? Isn't that precisely what we are doing at the moment by letting them take on the most ambitious projects? We should quit complaining about how much influence France has in space and realise we only have ourselves (or rather our politicians) to blame and it's not something that's going to change unless we get more involved. By being more involved we get a right to have more say.<br /><br />As to whether the government will fund manned programmes in the near future, I doubt it. What is more encouraging is that perhaps due to Beagle 2 or the advent of private space programmes, more people seem to agree that Britain should do more in space and has a lot to offer. Perhaps this change in public opinion might eventually change the government's mind. You never know, the government might decide to surprise us and fund Kliper!<br /><br />Britain might have been out of the game for some time but it's never too late to rediscover this great country's sense of exploration. <br /><br />I do agree with the first poster though, manned missions should not take money from unmanned ones. <br />

 

[botch]

I hear what you're saying - and believe me, I want to think that we can do something special. The future of British space probes will depend on public opinion which is already shaken by stories of the rushed Beagle 2. Things will know doubt improve if we have a succuss with Beagle 3. <br /><br />But space probes are a far cry from manned craft. <br /><br />The EU is known for its dragging beurocracy, and to make a larger scale (ie more expensive) vision for space to work, we need to learn to cut through the crap. <br /><br />Considering the recent failure of the referendums on bringing the EU nations closer, I don't forsee a political climate where that can happen. We can't agree on a constition, we're feeling a little shaky on the Euro, what makes us think that we are capable of the level of cooperation necessary for a full blown space program?<br />(Dammit, the pessimist in me is taking over again!)<br /><br />Of course, that doesn't mean anything if, as you said, kliper pans out and we get to launch from Korou. <br />

 

[alpha_centauri]

Lol, I know I'm preaching to the converted a little bit.<br /><br />Who said we must come up with a manned spacecraft on our own? AFAIK the question was raised was in relation to Britain joining a larger European space programme. Currently ESA appears to be looking to others (like Russia) to develop capabilities it doesn't yet have (ESA currently has no manned spacecraft) and so if our government was far sighted we could get our scientists in on the act.<br /><br />The question posed is basically "Should Britain support astronauts as part of the European Space Corps", it's not like we have to do it all alone.<br /><br />As for the EU stuff, ESA is not related to the EU, they are completely different things. They don't even have the same membership. ESA has in fact been a very successful area of European cooperation.<br /><br />What will it take for the government to consider manned spaceflight?

 

[nacnud]

<font color="yellow">ESA currently has no manned spacecraft<br /><br /><font color="white">Sorry to nit pic but the ATV is considered a manned spacecraft - although one hasn't been launched yet...</font></font>

 

[alpha_centauri]

Perhaps, however I consider a manned spacecraft one where a return flight is part of the package!<br /><br />Ok, ESA has no man rated launcher or method of getting people into space.

 

[botch]

I'm sorry, I mustn't have made it clear that I was talking about whether it was plausible for Britain to join a European effort on manned spaceflight. I must learn to read my own post and that of other peoples more thoroughly.<br />The reason I was talking about the EU was I was under the impression that ESA got most of its funding from the EU, so if the EU is as on the rocks as the news likes to say that it is, I assumed that meant trouble for ESA. <br /><br />Regarding your question of what it would take for the government to consider manned spaceflight, well you seem to be more knowledgable on space politics (and politics in general) than me so i'm not sure what I could say that you won't already know, but i'll give it a shot. <br /><br />My first thought was of why the US, Russia and China got their manned programs; prestige. The UK and the rest of Europe has to demonstrate that it can match the big 3, and by giving the UK a part in a prestige project will give the nation a sense of pride - a surefire way of drumming up even more political support. <br /><br />Ariane 5 has the payload capacity for a manned vehicle, especially in its ECA configuration, and capsule technology can't be beyond the combined expertise present in ESA.<br />One worry I have is, how can Ariane 5 be made a man-rated launcher?

 

[kdavis007]

What about Africa???

 

[najab]

><i>Should Britain fund astronauts?</i><p>The alternative being? I really can't see one.</p>

 

[najab]

><i>What about Africa?</i><p>I'm all in favour of manned missions to Africa too!</p>