Question Simple question. Is evolution real?

[Helio]

Confidence equals faith. If I swing out over a precipice on a rope, it is only because I have the confidence/faith in the rope. If I step out of a plane with a parachute, it is only because I have confidence/faith in that parachute. You can have confidence in evolution, but you cannot observe or test it.

I see it differently. I first have hope, but hope that is seen isn't hope. What we "see" becomes knowledge. A rope has tensile strength that is recognized well-enough (knowledge) to allow one to have confidence. That is more about science than it is about faith.

I don't have faith the chair I sit in will hold me because I have abundant evidence it will. If a strange chair is introduced, I can do statics engineering to determine if it will hold me.

A good example, perhaps, of a deeper meaning to faith is, in the movie, when Indian Jones had to trust in the words of the book he had (along with the belief his father held) to leap from the lion's head out into the abyss. He had no evidence or knowledge, he had to engage faith. Most steps aren't so dramatic, of course. Thank goodness.

 

[Wolfern]

Wolfern, I refer to beneficial mutations based upon the common usage of the term I see in literature promoting and teaching biological evolution, often connected with natural selection too. Specific examples I do not have.

Here is an observation from me. The Galilean moons at Jupiter are all testable and verifiable including accurate eclipse event predictions I can watch using my telescopes based upon natural law and math. Biological evolution does not compare well here with the math and predications that describe the Galilean moons at Jupiter.

You do not have any specific examples because there are none. As interesting as the math, involving gravity, velocity, mass, etc, might be, they have no relation to the evolution of life.

 

[COLGeek]

I'm sorry, but in my seventy years, I have never seen anyone point to a beneficial mutation. Please send me some documentation, or at least refer to them in this thread, that points to even one beneficial mutation.
Thanks.

On a cosmic scale, 70 years is not even a blip of time. Expecting to "see" evolution (beneficial mutation) in such a time frame is unrealistic, at best.

 

[Wolfern]

On a cosmic scale, 70 years is not even a blip of time. Expecting to "see" evolution (beneficial mutation) in such a time frame is unrealistic, at best.

Exactly! Not observable, not testable, not provable. Requires faith based on claims by scientists who are not able to use scientific methods to prove it.

 

[COLGeek]

Exactly! Not observable, not testable, not provable. Requires faith based on claims by scientists who are not able to use scientific methods to prove it.

There is certainly evidence to support evolution, even if you don't want to see it.

Faith and confidence in something are not the same thing.

I think we have taken this discussion as far as it can go. Thanks,

 

[Helio]

Exactly! Not observable, not testable, not provable.

Only a few examples were given , but there’s more. Remember that scientific theories can make predictions in principle where reason answers questions. Evolution is so reasonable, with no falsifications of actual predictions, that it is mainstream.

If you wish to propose an ATM hypothesis to counter evolution then the burden is on you to make it reasonable and testable. Hand-waving does little in a science forum.

 

[rod]

Interesting how predictions and testing works in the evolution department. There are more than 3,000 living fossils documented and microorganisms dated 4.28 billion years old like ones living on Earth today and seaweeds one billion years old, just like seaweeds living today. Consider the statement *with no falsifications of actual predictions* in post #106. How many living fossil examples are required to falsify biological evolution using the scientific method?

 

[Syeda Sabeeh Tabassum]

If we can exclude extra terrestrial intervention, and independent occurrence of similar species as in monkeys, apes and humans, then is not evolution a simple YES / NO question?

yes it is

 

[Wolfshadw]

I think this thread has run it's course. Feel free to continue the discussion, privately.

Closing
Wolfshadw
Moderator