Simulation Shows Bacteria Could Live on Mars

rlb2 · Dec 4, 2008

Now, building on a tradition of ground-based simulation that extends back to 1958, a new series of experiments, conducted by an interdisciplinary research team from the Faculty of Natural Sciences of the University of Aarhus, Denmark, suggests that indeed bacteria could survive beneath the martian soil.The team constructed a Mars Environmental Simulation Chamber (MESCH), from which air is removed with a vacuum pump, and replaced with a thin mixture of gases equivalent to those in the martian atmosphere. The chamber has a double wall cooled with liquid nitrogen to simulate the cold temperatures experienced in the martian night. While exposure to 80 days in the simulated martian environment essentially sterilized the topmost two centimeters of the simulated sample core, bacteria were "relatively unaffected" in the rest of the 30 centimeter sample tubes. This result, presented in a paper which is due to appear soon in the journal Astrobiology, suggests that some form of life could exist below the martian surface.The Faculty of Natural Sciences supported the construction of the MESCH instrument, and the experiments are supported by the Danish Natural Science Research Council.http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081204-am-mars-soil.html <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

MeteorWayne · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Now, building on a tradition of ground-based simulation that extends back to 1958, a new series of experiments, conducted by an interdisciplinary research team from the Faculty of Natural Sciences of the University of Aarhus, Denmark, suggests that indeed bacteria could survive beneath the martian soil.The team constructed a Mars Environmental Simulation Chamber (MESCH), from which air is removed with a vacuum pump, and replaced with a thin mixture of gases equivalent to those in the martian atmosphere. The chamber has a double wall cooled with liquid nitrogen to simulate the cold temperatures experienced in the martian night. While exposure to 80 days in the simulated martian environment essentially sterilized the topmost two centimeters of the simulated sample core, bacteria were "relatively unaffected" in the rest of the 30 centimeter sample tubes. This result, presented in a paper which is due to appear soon in the journal Astrobiology, suggests that some form of life could exist below the martian surface.The Faculty of Natural Sciences supported the construction of the MESCH instrument, and the experiments are supported by the Danish Natural Science Research Council.http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/081204-am-mars-soil.html Posted by rlb2</DIV> I think that matches what most scientists believe (I know I do). The harder question to answer is whether there ever was microbial life on Mars to survive in the first place. That's why we look

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

kg · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>.....This result, presented in a paper which is due to appear soon in the journal Astrobiology, suggests that some form of life could exist below the martian surface.Posted by rlb2</DIV> What would the correct term for life that originated here on earth but was living on another planet?  I've read that it might be possible for bacteria to be blasted off of the earth's surface by a meteor impact and survive the journey to the surface of Mars.  Extraterrestrial? Superterestrial?

michaelmozina · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What would the correct term for life that originated here on earth but was living on another planet?  I've read that it might be possible for bacteria to be blasted off of the earth's surface by a meteor impact and survive the journey to the surface of Mars.  Extraterrestrial? Superterestrial?  Posted by kg</DIV>It kinda makes you wonder about the implications of actually introducing the most likely lifeforms we can find on Earth and place them most strategically on Mars.  I guess you've have to be certain you've already answered Wayne's question about whether or not life already exists there *before* we start thinking about terraforming the place.

<div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

rlb2 · Dec 4, 2008

kg -  What would the correct term for life that originated here on earth but was living on another planet? ______________________________________________________________-If the past is a measure of it then yes, there is a multitude of different ways that we have infested Mars already. Viking Landers were not near as sterile as today’s Landers. Bacteria survive the Lunar Landing, nematodes survived the Columbia Space Shuttle Disaster fiery re-entry, Tardigrades survived testing in the complete vacuum of space exposed to high radiation, etc etc.Now one of the problems before us is if we find life on Mars is it from Mars or Earth???Here is a video I made several months ago of a nematode like object that appears to move around in the Martian soil from the Phoenix Microscopic Imager. Is it from Mars? Is it from Earth? Or is it, none of the above? It is important to note it isn't enough evidence by itself to stand alone for the existence of a life form living on Mars however the discovery of water-ice and Percholates does help its cause.<span style="color

urple">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjjZh98wcVkNote - I was told by CNN that an older version I made of this animation will be aired on CNN American Morning in the week of thanksgiving... I didn't watch the show, don't know what was they said about it? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

franontanaya · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>What would the correct term for life that originated here on earth but was living on another planet?</DIV>Heterochtonous.Also, species that settle on barren enviroments are called 'pioneer species'. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

kg · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It kinda makes you wonder about the implications of actually introducing the most likely lifeforms we can find on Earth and place them most strategically on Mars.  I guess you've have to be certain you've already answered Wayne's question about whether or not life already exists there *before* we start thinking about terraforming the place.

Posted by michaelmozina</DIV> I was thinking of a natural introduction hundreds of millions of years ago of an organism that originated from earth and adapted to the environment on Mars.  I was only wondering what it would be called, if it would still be considered alien or if we would have to consider Mars to be some kind of extension of our own biosphere or somthing?

MeteorWayne · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>kg -  What would the correct term for life that originated here on earth but was living on another planet? ______________________________________________________________-If the past is a measure of it then yes, there is a multitude of different ways that we have infested Mars already. Viking Landers were not near as sterile as today’s Landers. Bacteria survive the Lunar Landing, nematodes survived the Columbia Space Shuttle Disaster fiery re-entry, Tardigrades survived testing in the complete vacuum of space exposed to high radiation, etc etc.Now one of the problems before us is if we find life on Mars is it from Mars or Earth???Here is a video I made several months ago of a nematode like object that appears to move around in the Martian soil from the Phoenix Microscopic Imager. Is it from Mars? Is it from Earth? Or is it, none of the above? It is important to note it isn't enough evidence by itself to stand alone for the existence of a life form living on Mars however the discovery of water-ice and Percholates does help its cause.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjjZh98wcVkNote - I was told by CNN that an older version I made of this animation will be aired on CNN American Morning in the week of thanksgiving... I didn't watch the show, don't know what was they said about it? Posted by rlb2</DIV> Since the surface environment is so unconducive to life at this time, I doubt that's much of an issue. Since the potential surviveable environment is underground, it seems unlikely any "stuff" on any of our landers could have made it to there before expiring. Though not impossible for sure.Certainly, if microbes were able to survive the journey from earth to Mars in the interior of meteoroids, and the surface was more friendly "back then", we could have seeded life there. Of course, that is much easier to do in the Mars to Earth direction, so the odds are at least as high that Martian life seeded ours. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

rlb2 · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'> Of course, that is much easier to do in the Mars to Earth direction, so the odds are at least as high that Martian life seeded ours. Posted by MeteorWayne</DIV>True however the 1500 Diameter Hellas basin on Mars, deepest crater in our solar system at over 10 kilometers and the Aiken Crater on the moon the largest diameter crater in the solar system had enough energy to do this if it happened on earth. A relative small impact, 150 mile diameter Chicxulub Crater on earth as compared to the ones I mentioned above that some theorize killed the dinosaur off had enough energy, tens of thousands time more energy than the Saturn V rocket, to propel a small asteroid fast enough to escape Earth gravitational well. On another note it’s also a question on if life began here before our moon was created from the theorized Martian size object that impacted Earth or transferred here from that impact??? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Ron Bennett </div>

michaelmozina · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>True however the 1500 Diameter Hellas basin on Mars, deepest crater in our solar system at over 10 kilometers and the Aicken Crater on the moon the largest diameter crater in the solar system had enough energy to do this if it happened on earth. A relative small impact, 150 mile diameter Chicxulub Crater on earth as compared to the ones I mentioned above that some theorize killed the dinosaur off had enough energy to propel a small asteroid fast enough to escape Earth gravitational well. On another note it’s also a question on if life began here before our moon was created from the theorized Martian size object that impacted Earth or transferred here from that impact??? Posted by rlb2</DIV>It seems to me that the trail of life on Earth goes back so far in time that it seems unlikely to me that life was first able to make a foothold on a different planet in the solar system and ride some sort of material into the Earth's atmosphere. If that were the case with Mars, I would expect we would find quite a few signs of life on Mars, even now, particularly since lifeforms seem to be able to adapt to the harshest conditions here on Earth.  That's just my opinion anywway.I do believe we will find life is abundant in the universe, but maybe not so abundant in our own solar system. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

kg · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>It seems to me that the trail of life on Earth goes back so far in time that it seems unlikely to me that life was first able to make a foothold on a different planet in the solar system and ride some sort of material into the Earth's atmosphere. Posted by michaelmozina</DIV> Is it possible that life as we know it needed diversity of environments to get started?  The early solar system might have been a very chaotic place what with planets smashing into one another all kinds of stuff getting tossed about and shuffled around.  Maybe life needed some crazy improbable sequence of events to become what we know it to be.  In which case life in the universe might be harder to come by than you might think.

MeteorWayne · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>True however the 1500 Diameter Hellas basin on Mars, deepest crater in our solar system at over 10 kilometers and the Aiken Crater on the moon the largest diameter crater in the solar system had enough energy to do this if it happened on earth. A relative small impact, 150 mile diameter Chicxulub Crater on earth as compared to the ones I mentioned above that some theorize killed the dinosaur off had enough energy, tens of thousands time more energy than the Saturn V rocket, to propel a small asteroid fast enough to escape Earth gravitational well. On another note it’s also a question on if life began here before our moon was created from the theorized Martian size object that impacted Earth or transferred here from that impact??? Posted by rlb2</DIV> From what I've seen the moon creating impact would have been a sterilizing even for both original objects and any debris. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id. I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function </div>

michaelmozina · Dec 4, 2008

Replying to: <DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>Is it possible that life as we know it needed diversity of environments to get started?  The early solar system might have been a very chaotic place what with planets smashing into one another all kinds of stuff getting tossed about and shuffled around.  Maybe life needed some crazy improbable sequence of events to become what we know it to be.  In which case life in the universe might be harder to come by than you might think. Posted by kg</DIV>Even assuming all of this is so, the universe seems to be very vast.  It is populated with stars that are far more abundant than all the grains of sand on every beach on Earth.  It seems to me that it would be a "terrible waste of space" if life is not "abundant" in the universe.

Purely from "law of averages" perspective, it seems as though the mathematical odds are in favor of life on a wide scale.  Whether or not it is 'intelligent life" by our standards remains to be seen by Drake's equations would seem to suggest that even duplication of intelligent life is "likely" given the law of averages.There is also evidence that the basic building blocks of life have been available to form life as we know it as far back in time as we can see.http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/2992313.stmhttp://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=17525 The second link I added later when I realized I posted the wrong link the first time.   <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

michaelmozina · Dec 4, 2008

I suppose it would be way too early to send a robotic mission to Mars with the express intent of introducing bacteria and lifeforms that might survive on Mars.  It would also be advantageous to know if life is aready there *before* we start introducing life on the planet. Considering the cost of a human mission to Mars, and the likelihood that we would introduce life to Mars inadvertently anyway, the curious side of me wonders if we shouldn't try to introduce some living organisms on Mars with the express intent of finding out if they will survive on Mars. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> It seems to be a natural consequence of our points of view to assume that the whole of space is filled with electrons and flying electric ions of all kinds. - Kristian Birkeland </div>

marsbug · Dec 5, 2008

It would be, however at some point we'll have to admit defeat (unless we find something). I think enginneering mars to support simple life might be fairly simple. All the ingredients are there for a habitable world, and it may well have been following volcanic episodes or major meteor strikes in the past. One of the things we can do now is refine simulations like this one, try to identify which species might have a fighting chance on mars, and how much conditions would need to change for something to take hold. This helps both the search for past life and hopes for seeding it in the future.

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