Solar Twin, HIP 56849 in Draco?

[3488]

Did this star form with the Sun??<br /><br />HIP 56980 in Draco.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[usn_skwerl]

it's mentioned here on SDC, too andrew..I'm guessing it must be true. And pretty cool. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[tom_hobbes]

Hi Andrew,<br /><br />If it did, how could it be a billion years older? Just wondering how relative the term, 'form with the Sun' actually is and how long stellar nurseries continue to birth new stars. Presumably over very long periods of time.<br /><br />Jay. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#339966"> I wish I could remember<br /> But my selective memory<br /> Won't let me</font><font size="2" color="#99cc00"> </font><font size="3" color="#339966"><font size="2">- </font></font><font size="1" color="#339966">Mark Oliver Everett</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[ashish27]

you mean to say that this star formed from the same nebula as that of our sun? if thats the case why its 200LY away? it should have been closer.

 

[h2ouniverse]

The Sun has made about 20 times its orbit around Milky Way since it formed. The stars that were close to the Sun just 63 million years ago after dinosaurs extinction are no longer at all close to the Sun. A fortiori those 4.5 bn years ago.<br />Actually 200LY is very close at galactic scale, that would indicate an orbit very close to that of the Sun's.<br /><br />Think of collisional families in asteroid belt or Kuiper belt (e.g; the one of 2003EL61): the objects scatter with time.<br /><br />Best regards.

 

[3488]

Hi Jay,<br /><br />I noticed that too, hence a little scepticsm on my part. <br /><br />Having said that though, the billion year difference is uncertain & the fact that HIP 56849,<br />has an almost identical orbit around the galactic centre as our own Sun, is also compelling.<br /><br />I am not saying that HIP 56849 is a solar sibling, but does seem to have a good case. <br /><br />Much more research is needed though, but I found it interesting & plausible enough to <br />start a thread.<br /><br />Hi Joel, yes it is true. Chances are that the majority of the Sun's siblings are widely scattered. Your <br />analogy of the Kuiper Belt, is a great one.<br /><br />So is the Main Asteroid Belt.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

What breaks nursery clusters apart? Gravitational interactions with other passing stars? Tides?

 

[3488]

Yes, exactly those forces.<br /><br />The Hyades & Pleiades are breaking apart. The bright star Capella (Alpha Aurigae)<br />appears to be an ejected member of the Hyades.<br /><br />Also the Ursa Major Moving Group is pretty scattered about now, including five stars of <br />the Big Dipper / Plough, not Dubhe & Alkaid, but includes Menkalinan / Beta Aurigae,<br />Alphecca & Sirius.<br /><br />Our Sun, is not part of a recognised cluster or moving group, but chances are, at one time was.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

It's also interaction among the stars that form.<br /><br />If our current understanding is correct, our sun was not the only one formed in the neighborhood when the suspected compression wave (from a supernova or whatever) passed by. So you had a few, or few dozen, or few hundred stars formed close to each other in a relatively short time (which in the big picture would be hundreds of millions of years). The gravitaional interaction between these masses will eject them from the vicinity of their formation in most cases.<br /><br />So we may be near the center, or we may be one of the ejected ones <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Btw Andrew, did they really mean that this star would be from Sun's nursery. I understood that it was the best fit to now composition-wise, with interest as a "solar extrasolar reference", but not necessarily an evidence of brotherhood...<br /><br />Is the orbit of this star around Milky Way known? And in that case, is it consistent with the co-formation scenario?<br /><br />Regards.<br />

 

[jaxtraw]

I take it there aren't any obvious nearby stars moving in the same direction and at the same speed as us? I guess we were rejected <img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" />

 

[dragon04]

<font color="yellow">I take it there aren't any obvious nearby stars moving in the same direction and at the same speed as us? I guess we were rejected</font><br /><br />It's a GOOD thing that we were rejected (ejected). It would be a very bad thing if our "siblings" were moving towards and around us.<br /><br />The fact that we're in a sparsely populated part of the galaxy is probably why we're still around, or maybe why we got our start in the first place.<br /><br />Having sibling stars buzzing around us perturbing our Oort Cloud would have us in a cosmic shooting gallery. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <em>"2012.. Year of the Dragon!! Get on the Dragon Wagon!".</em> </div>

 

[jaxtraw]

Or maybe the Oort Cloud would be long gone, or maybe would never have formed in the first place..?

 

[mooware]

I could be wrong but I think the use of the word "Solar Twin" in just a little confusing. i don't think they meant it formed with the sun. More like it's nearly identical to the sun. <br /><br />an analogy.. "Hey you guys look alike. he could pass your twin"<br /><br />

 

[ashish27]

But that star has exactly the same composition and size and intensity as that of the sun.<br />I think its better if we call it a 'sibling" rather than twin. Its a billion years older after all.<br />Our sun, the little brother!

 

[mooware]

I think given the size of the univirse that's bound to happen. I still think the use of the word twin more more of a metaphor than it being actually a twin

 

[h2ouniverse]

Hi Drg,<br /><br />in reply to<br />-------------<br />The fact that we're in a sparsely populated part of the galaxy is probably why we're still around, or maybe why we got our start in the first place. <br /><br />--------------------<br /><br />Actually, although the Sun orbits in the corotating zone, i.e. at a speed comparable to the rotation speed of the spiral arms, the relative speed is not null. From time to time, the Sun crosses the spiral arms. More exactly, the Sun temporarily belongs to the density wave that makes a spiral arm.<br />There is the possibility that the Sun last escaped the spiral arms 600mln years ago, a troubling coincidence with the cambrian life explosion. But the value of 600 mln for the exit has a large uncertainty attached afaik.<br /><br />We cross stars very often imho.<br /><br />Regards.

 

[3488]

hi Joel,<br /><br />Do you think there might be a connection between the Cambrian Life Explosion & the<br />postioning of the Sun within the Milky Way at that time?<br /><br />It is generally accepted that the Sun orbits the galactic centre once every 225 million years. <br /><br />This may mean that the Sun does not follow the same orbit twice (I would expect <br />that to be the case anyhow).<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

Hi Andrew<br /><br />The Sun's period is indeed 225mln yrs. But it is in he corotation zone. The relative motion vs the arms is very slow: the rotation speed of the spiral arms density waves happens to be comparable to the Sun's. So it takes several orbits for the Sun to pass from one arm to another.<br /><br />Regards.

 

[ashish27]

IIRC Carl Sagan had sugested in his book Cosmos that while the Sun makes its way through the spiral arms, interstellar dust come between the Sun & Earth resuting in ice-ages on our planet.<br /><br />I can't remember in which chapter this was written, else I would have quoted.