Soo.. China..

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"...but if the new race had more than a single goal (being the first to the moon) and more than one other player (Russia), then don't you think competition with China, Japan, Europe, and even India might help to permanently revitalize space exploration?</font><br /><br />-----<br />crazy (may I call you that?<img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />), competition is often useful in things like this, but what worries me is the thought of spending tons of American taxpayers dollars to prove we can outspend every country in the world. We can rationalize spending the money, and that's OK, to a point.<br /><br />I'm with qso1. As much doubt as I have about private enterprise actually succeeding in getting cheaper access to LEO or better, it seems to me to be a necessity to do so somewhere down the road. If not, government programs will be all we'll have. In my view, a sufficient amount of the people's money could bootstrap the fledgling private human spaceflight industry and, in so doing, promote the general welfare of the country.<br /><br />Having competition is good. I believe space leadership is important to enough Americans that should China, India, Japan or whomever, develop more capability, the money will be available to NASA to do what it takes to go beyond them. So, let's cheer for all efforts to develop space.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[fatal291]

yeah im not sure if they are interested in mars though

 

[alokmohan]

I accept competition and cooperation may help.Space race is both together.

 

[qso1]

danhezee:<br />I don't have a "been there done that attitude" and most people i know don't have that attitude because my generation has never witness anything like landing on the moon.<br /><br />Me:<br />Keep in mind, I don't mean to imply everyone has that attitude...just the majority as evidenced by seeing such things as the 50th anniversary of Sputnik on page 49 of Newsweek while Britney Spears was on page 7 for no particularly earthshaking accomplishment. And since Newsweek is in the business to sell magazines, they need to know what their readership is looking for.<br /><br />Its refreshing to see someone such as yourself express an interest in the way you did. Noting that your generation had never witnessed anything like that.<br /><br />danhezee:<br />maybe this time access to the moon might become routine giving everyone the chance to go.<br /><br />Me:<br />I agree and also hope that throught the efforts of the private sector that this happens.<br /><br />danhezee:<br />whereas, mars has no economic value and sending men there is a dangerous undertaking just for oneupmanship;<br /><br />Me:<br />The value I see in going to mars is the search for evidence of or possible existence of life. Microbiological being the most likely form but still what could be one of mankinds most important discoveries. It would be quite a step to say that life arose on two worlds in the same stellar system (Our solar system) and a step that would suggest intelligent life could have arisen in at least one other stellar system in our galaxy. I definetily agree going to mars shouldn't be a one upsmanship quest.<br /><br />Once we establish lunar transit capability on a routine basis...and low cost access to earth orbit...mars won't be as daunting a goal. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

Mars is our future earth,where we shall stay.We may terraform it whin a century.It is our future ,see Zubrin.

 

[qso1]

I'd certainly agree that mars is in our future. But as to terraforming within a century...not so sure. But then, I guess it really dosn't matter so long as we finally get there. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[fatal291]

i dont understand why people want to do that much work on mars.. its just as old as the earth and the sun is halfway through its life cycle. sure exploring mars would be good, but turing it into another Earth IMO is a bit much considering the sun is already halfway. i think like qso1said we should study it for life and keep it mainly research rather building malls and condos everywhere along the man made planet.

 

[qso1]

I'm of the opinion that we will get so good at building large artificial habs in orbit and use them beyond that terraforming entire planets may not ever be necessary. One reason is interstellar travel. We may get data on an earthlike world that allows us to have a destination to go to but being limited at least initially to subluminal speed...we will have to transit in a starship that will have to be a small earth of sorts, from a life support capability standpoint. We might find upon arriving at this world that we cannot live there for some undetected reason in which case, we'd continue to rely on the starship for survival. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[fatal291]

wel thy want a part of the iss..

 

[mithridates]

I saw an article here on space.com about that very subject a bit more than a year ago but try as I might I can't find it. Anybody have the address for it?<br /><br />(It was an article on why it would be best to simply colonize space and not attempt to do anything on the surfaces of planets for the time being) <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[qso1]

Whoever wrote the article or proposed the idea probably figured the same thing I did. It will take such a long time to get to even the nearest star at sublight speed, that the craft will have to be capable of multigenerational life support. Especially if sent to a destination that shows signs of human life support capability only to show that its not capable of human life support at all upon ship arrival.<br /><br />I also looked at the first planet to be terraformed...Earth. Albiet terraformed inadvertantly and in such a way that we cannot yet prove its been terraformed. Odd as that sounds, what I'm referring to is the industrial revolution and greenhouse gas output into earths atmosphere over the last century or so. I see that as a form of inadvertant terraforming. It has taken a century just to get to the point where we think we might be affecting the earths normal cycles and environment. And we didn't actually realize at the start of industrialization that we could affect the earth in a major way at all.<br /><br />But with todays techniques, it appears that if we wanted to terraform a world, it would take one or two centuries at best. Perhaps in a thousand or so years, we might find mars partially, or completely terraformed. No way to know for sure what route will be taken. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[alokmohan]

We may terraform mars by the end of next century.

 

[qso1]

We might, no way to know for sure. I'm of the opinion were not likely to...but we might. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><strong>My borrowed quote for the time being:</strong></p><p><em>There are three kinds of people in life. Those who make it happen, those who watch it happen...and those who do not know what happened.</em></p> </div>

 

[h2ouniverse]

the effect on climate is believed to have started even earlier:<br />http://www.virginia.edu/topnews/releases2003/climate-dec-9-2003.html<br />although more mildly than in the latest century, but apparently enough to delay the next ice age. Without that, the industrial age would apparently not have come in this cycle.

 

[fatal291]

well im sure if we continue to send robotic junk up there it will add up to something also.