SpaceDev Flies Prototype Hybrid Rocket Lunar Lander

[docm]

Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>SpaceDev Flies Prototype Hybrid Rocket Lunar Lander<br /><br /><i>Project is first to demonstrate applied throttling capability</i></b><br /><br />POWAY, CA – December 20, 2007 – SpaceDev, Inc. (OTCBB: SPDV) announced today that it has concluded the first phase of development on its hybrid rocket powered lunar lander prototype, with a successful flight test. The effort was supported by the International Lunar Observatory Association (ILOA) led by Steve Durst, who envision using the technology to bring their ILO spacecraft to a soft landing on the South Pole of the Moon, where it will perform various astrophysics and communication functions.<br /><br />During the flight test, the lander prototype vehicle’s four hybrid rocket motors were ignited and throttled via radio control, their thrust adjusted in real time to achieve lift-off, ascended to approximately 35 feet, hovered, descended, and landed softly. A video of the flight may be seen here - <font color="yellow"><b>Lander Test Video</b></font>/a>.<br /><br />This test marked the first ever of a hybrid rocket powered lander vehicle and demonstrated applied throttling, a key capability of SpaceDev’s reliable, safe, and non-toxic hybrid propulsion technology. “This is an exciting project that has shown not only the versatility of our hybrid motors, but also SpaceDev’s high levels of responsiveness and efficiency,†said Mark N. Sirangelo, SpaceDev’s Chairman and CEO. “We see many important applications for our throttleable rockets, and we look forward to continuing our relationship with ILOA as well as our research and development of lander vehicles.â€<br /><br />About SpaceDev<br /><br />SpaceDev, Inc. is a</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[no_way]

Watched the video just a while ago .. i must say, that the black smoke clouds dont _look_ good. They might not be worse than LOX-hydrocarbon fumes, but they dont give that impression.<br />Regardless, great accomplishment ! Thats the way to demonstrate your technological achievements, put them on an actual rocket and show how they work.

 

[cazuke]

It's great to see actual hardware! I must agree that the black smoke is not as pleasing to the eye.<br /><br />Did the rocket hit something on the way up or what caused the swiveling?<br /><br />How can this be compered to Armadillo? I know those guys only work in spare time etc. But is this a much easier achievement by spacedev than for armadillo when you look at time spent etc?

 

[docm]

SpaceDev only announced the contract with ILOA last August 23rd, so they're making great progress IMO.<br /><br />http://spacedev.com/press_more_info.php?id=217 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[holmec]

Fantastic! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[aphh]

Does anybody know if this is only a technology demonstration, or is this going to be spaceworthy hardware meaning is there a contract already for a full lander?

 

[spacy600]

To my untrained eye, it looked like <br />it ran out of cable, at the top.<br />Hit the top stop, that caused the swaying back and forth.<br /><br />They throttled down, hovered a couple of seconds.<br />Then landed.<br /><br />I assume it is plexiglass, so this type of hybrid <br />will only be used in space, Moon, or in vacuum, <br />on sat's.<br /><br />I am very glad to see this.

 

[aphh]

Not even trying to avoid being overly optimistic, but judging from that video and knowing what SpaceDev could do, we're 3 - 5 years from being back on the surface of the moon.

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"To my untrained eye, it looked like <br />it ran out of cable, at the top. <br />Hit the top stop, that caused the swaying back and forth."</font><br /><br />Yeah, to my untrained eye as well. What's interesting though is that the test vehicle was able to handle that.<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"I assume it is plexiglass, so this type of hybrid <br />will only be used in space, Moon, or in vacuum, <br />on sat's."</font><br /><br />Huh???<br /><br />What I am curious about is the burn time of this motor. Is it scalable to a practical Lunar Lander?<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"Does anybody know if this is only a technology demonstration, or is this going to be spaceworthy hardware meaning is there a contract already for a full lander?"</font><br /><br />It's just a technology demonstration at this point, but an impressive one, particularly the throttling.<br /><br />More info on the ILO can be seen here and here.<br /><br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Huntster]

>>To my untrained eye, it looked like it ran out of cable, at the top.<br /><br />That is a likely possibility, but I did not notice a distinct jerk that one might expect if it hit the end of its rope. What I did see was that the motor nearest the tower appeared to flame out, lose flow or something immediately before the swaying began, then fired back up, perhaps in time to stabilize. While that same motor did the same thing several more times during the flight without noticeable swaying, the assembly was accelerating at the time of the first flame out, so perhaps the effect of a lack of balanced thrust was more pronounced.<br /><br />Very impressive demo nonetheless, though I too wonder about the black exhaust. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

The fuel grain in SpaceDevs hybrid rockets is Hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB); a rubber similar to what's used in tires. Ever see a tire burn? <br /><br />Those motors are also throttleable and restartable, so the "flameout" could have just been it compensating. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[3488]

I have & it burns at a surprisingly high temperature.<br /><br />The energy released from using such a substance for fuel would be quite sufficient.<br /><br />A car scrap yard, a few miles south of my home town a few years ago was attacked by arsonists.<br /><br />The wheels had already been taken off a lot of them & a huge pile of the old tyres was made,<br />ready to be taken to be recycled. Some morons used petrol & set fire to it.<br /><br />The Fire Brigade evacuated a small village close by because of the toxic fumes, but<br />theone thing they did mention was the heat. Nearby trees were killed & even nearly a <br />mile away, trees suffered singeing damage on the leaves. That is some heat. <br /><br />So yes, I can see how that type of rubber would be an effective fuel.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[aphh]

Thanks for the links to ILO site above.<br /><br />According to this page http://www.spaceagepub.com/ilo/ilo.abstract.html a 35 million mission would set humanity back on the surface of the moon for meaningful operations.<br /><br />Heh, give this company a bit of money and the moon is starting to look like an alternative again.

 

[Huntster]

>> The fuel grain in SpaceDevs hybrid rockets is Hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene (HTPB); a rubber similar to what's used in tires. Ever see a tire burn?<br /><br />Very interesting, thanks for that info. According to the press release posted above, I thought it was supposed to be a relatively non-toxic system...in light of what Andrew posted, is this still the case? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[docm]

Actually when they say 'non-toxic' they refer to the safety of handing HTPB plus the relatively benign chemistry of the nitrous oxide oxidizer. <br /><br />Compared to the hypergolic fuels used in many Russian and the Titan II rockets their toxicity is low, though any liquid oxidizer can bite you in the butt as the incident at Mohave proved. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

As far as the black exhaust is concerned, I would have expected that considering the fuel used, but I'm not so sure after an exchange of messages with Anthony Cesaroni of Cesaroni Technologies on another message group:<br /><br /><blockquote><p align="left">"The tether method is quite questionable in the video and at least one<br />of the motors appeared to shut down prematurely. The amount of black<br />smoke suggests a very poor O/F ratio and/or poor combustion<br />efficiency that's on the cusp of pyrolysis. Throttling a hybrid is<br />very doable and old hat. The problem with putting it into practice<br />with a head end injected, classical hybrid that employs a pressure<br />insensitive fuel is quite evident. You end up simply blowing fuel out<br />the exhaust and trade considerable Isp and Isp is especially precious<br />in a VTOL system. It's would be more effective to duty cycle<br />thrusters at an optimum operation range than trying to modulate<br />oxidizer flow in this kind of system. A different type of hybrid<br />cycle with a pressure dependent fuel gets around these issues."</p></blockquote><br /><br />I would be interested in the reaction of others to this statement. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

<font color="yellow">"The wheels had already been taken off a lot of them & a huge pile of the old tyres was made, <br />ready to be taken to be recycled. Some morons used petrol & set fire to it."</font><br /><br />There was a similar event near Winchester, VA where I lived years ago that in the local suthun pronunciation was know as "The Tar Far" <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />. That fire lasted 9 months and was a serious pollution problem in the area.<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[comga]

APHH: "Not even trying to avoid being overly optimistic, but ...we're 3 - 5 years from... the moon."<br /><br />Try harder.<br /><br />No guidance apparent. Wild wobbling even on a tether. Perhaps poorly combusted fuel. Short duration. <br /><br />Cool stuff, indeed, but not yet ready for prime time. At some point, optimism morphs into giddiness.

 

[windnwar]

I've seen several home built hybrids used at tripoli high power ameuter rocket launches and they all had a blackish smoke to them. They were always popular because once you had the tank costs etc done, cost per launch was alot cheaper then the solid rockets since you could generally get 3 or 4 launch out of the hybrid fuel grain. Just add more nitrous to the tank each time. <br /><br />They sure do sound strange though. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font size="2" color="#0000ff">""Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." --Albert Einstein"</font></p> </div>

 

[aphh]

I checked a few videos of hybrid motor tests, and it appears the black smoke is a feature. Even SS1 shows this on it's flight to space (albeit not in same quantity).

 

[docm]

SS1 was throttled to a full bore oxidizer flow, but for attitude control the landers engines may well have been throttled to anywhere from full bore down to 20%...maybe less...and they'd have to do that by cutting the oxidizer flow. <br /><br />Bringing that down to Earth; reduce the oxidizer flow, atmospheric O2, to an IC engine thereby richening the fuel/air mixture and what do you get? <br /><br />Black smoke <img src="/images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <br /><br />Same thing that happens when a carbureted IC engines choke gets stuck only partly open.<br /><br />Take that from someone who's built/fired a hybrid. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

I've flown hybrids too, but they used plastic fuel grains not rubber. There was very little smoke.<br /><br />But I have no doubt that the fuel was HTPB. The heavy black smoke could present a problem to an autonomous landing system.<br /><br />I have to admit that, after reading some comments on another message group, that this test was not as impressive as I first thought. Apparently, the "tether" was actually a guidewire and some counterweights were used to control the vehicle. There was no active attitude control. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>

 

[docm]

Then they do have a bit of work to do. <br /><br />No doubt Armadillo has quite a lead in terms of attitude control & software. <br /><br />PS: we've used acrylic plastic, rubber and paraffin, and the latter burns hot & clean. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[Swampcat]

This is a little off topic, but I just saw the SDC article Prototype Moon Lander Takes Test Flight.<br /><br />I quote from the article: "The lander prototype has four hybrid rocket motors that contain both solid and liquid fuel — a combination of non-explosive materials that supposedly reduces the chance for accidents. The liquid fuel also permits throttling by controlling fuel flow and acceleration."<br /><br />Aarrgghh!!! "...both solid and liquid fuel..."<br /><br />Mr. Hsu, if you are reading this, and hope to have a future as a science writer, learn the difference between fuel and oxidizer. The fuel in this hybrid motor is solid, the liquid is the oxidizer. Together they make rocket propellant. <br /><br />Oh, and one other thing...it is reported elsewhere that there was only one oxidizer tank that fed the four motors.<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="3" color="#ff9900"><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>------------------------------------------------------------------- </em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong><em>"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government."</em></strong></font></p><p><font size="1" color="#993300"><strong>Thomas Jefferson</strong></font></p></font> </div>