Spacesuits!

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Does anyone know of any designs or proposed upgrades to the spacesuit?<br /><br />Materials science and engineering have come a long way in recent years. I think it's time a sleeker and more manouverable suit was proposed. It'd pay dividends in the reduced man hours required for EVAs. What with all the 'return to the moon' talk the suits shouldn't be neglected.<br /><br />Links, photos etc would be MUCH appreciated be it American, Russian, European or Chinese. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

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<br />http://mvl.mit.edu/EVA/biosuit<br /><br />or this style....<br /><br />http://www.studio187.com/rpg/characterimages/fullsize/scifi/biosuit.jpg <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Current suits are (just) good enough for orbital operations. until people seriously start designing suits for the Moon and then Mars I don't think we will see much improvements. Some of these might feed back into orbital suits. At least in national and international level operations.<br /><br />The other possibility is that independent orbital missions might create a demand for very simple and safe suits that are easy to don and doff for space tourists. This would be a great help all round, and move EVA operations from the current hard hat era to the aqualung era. To use an analog from the history of undersea operations.<br /><br />It's certaininly hard (impossible?) to envisage the current suits supporting the hundreds of EVAs that will happen during a Mars mission, let alone orbital tourism.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

I can't find the photos at the moment, but didn't artistic renderings of the Spaceship 2 mission show tourist in spandex "spacesuits"?

 

[j05h]

> It's certaininly hard (impossible?) to envisage the current suits supporting the hundreds of EVAs that will happen during a Mars mission, let alone orbital tourism. <br /><br />I think spacesuits will evolve in several directions. Tourist spacesuits will be like the old high-altitude flight suits like the S-2. The only thing will be found to reliably work on the moon for long periods will be "AX-5" style hardsuits with sealed joints. Lunar exploration may form the impetus for true "power armor" suits. Martian exploration suits will be mechanical counterpressure suits (MCP, like BioSuit) with various cover-alls and very simple recharge of air/power/water. For both freefall construction and exploration I think light "workpods" will prove more practical for general use, or just sitting inside your baseblock with VR goggles. Eventually MCP suits will replace all 'balloon' suits for direct human-in-space use, and there will be a great deal of robotics involved in other applications. I'm not sure about the exact technologies that will go into each but think this is a reasonable potential path.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

I remember reading a recent news story that NASA has a space-suit research project with the goal of a universal suit. That is a modular suit which could be used for in cabin flight, zero-G EVA, and surface EVA jobs. The desire is to reduce costs by coming up with a single type suit all crew could wear for all missions.<br /><br />I had the reaction that such a goal was pretty pie-in-the-sky. The three jobs are so different that anything close to working would involve too many compromises and increase the development cost beyond the combined costs of specialized suits.

 

[rocketman5000]

what would be the major differences in requirements between EVA and surface EVA's?. Seems like both need as much mobility as possible with minimal effort. <br /><br />A method to strap on a "thruster pack" for in orbit EVA's would seem to be the only major requirement to me, but then again I don't know much about spacesuit requirements.<br /><br />

 

[halman]

JonClarke,<br /><br />As far as orbital tourism goes, the absolute simplest possible design will probably be favored, which means a can with a viewport. (If tourists are even allowed out the airlock. Liability would increase several hundred fold if they are.) Several authors have questioned why suits for zero-gravity work need legs. A hard cylinder, with arms and clear dome might be adequate.<br /><br />For the Moon and Mars, maybe a tracked cart that encases the legs and lower torso, providing insulation from contact with the extreme temperatures of the surface, avoiding friction wear on leg joints, and allow for extended mobility without the dangerous hop so easy in low gravity. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"what would be the major differences in requirements between EVA and surface EVA's?. Seems like both need as much mobility as possible with minimal effort."<br /><br />A surface EVA suit needs to weigh as little as possible. For a zero G suit, weight isn't very important. A surface EVA suit needs dust resistance/control, a zero G suit doesn't. A Mars surface EVA suit can probably have less MMOD protectection and deal with less extremes of temperature too.<br />

 

[JonClarke]

All true. Add to that a Mars suit might need a different temperature regulation system, surface EVA suits need flexible lower limbs and the ability to bend at the waist, boots with traction, and be able to communicate over long distances. <br /><br />Jon<br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

I suspect tourists will be demanding to go out the airlock, liability be blowed. The sort of hard cylinder suit you describe was very popular in the 50's and 60's literature (and SF) but seems to have faded from view. I suspect partly because legs are proved useful, if nothing else than anchoring points to a robotioc arm.<br /><br />The other thing about toruists, especially those on the frontier, is that they demand authenticity of experience. They want to experience something the pioneers experienced. Maybe they will insist on inflatable suits because they were good enough for Leonov and White...<br /><br />While technically feasible and a clever idea I don't think your suit cart will be practical. I don't think it offers any more molbility than a small rover with the same limitations on steep slopes, rocky ground and soft going that a suited astronaut could cross easily. And, in the event of failure, the astronaut is trapped, whereas they can always get off a rover and walk.<br /><br />Jon<br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>

 

[bpfeifer]

As for space tourists, Space Adventures Inc announced a couple of months ago that they are offering EVA to their clients in Orlan suits for an additional $15 million. I guess if you can afford to go to the ISS, the extra cost of doing an EVA isn't too extreme. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[bpfeifer]

"Does anyone know of any designs or proposed upgrades to the spacesuit?"<br /><br />NASA is always researching better suits these days. They have a wide range in development from completely soft and light to heavy hard suits.<br /><br />One of the Centennial Challenges is all about building a better suit glove. <br />http://www.astronaut-glove.us/<br /><br />Gloves are still a problematic area for EVA and surface EVA work. You wnat gloves to be highly dexterous, with finger tip sensitivity, plus the usual thermal insulation and air bladder. All of these elements together tend to be contradictory and contribute to the difficulty of glove design. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> Brian J. Pfeifer http://sabletower.wordpress.com<br /> The Dogsoldier Codex http://www.lulu.com/sabletower<br /> </div>

 

[halman]

JonClarke,<br /><br />While thinking about surface suits, I got to wondering what the long-term effect of walking would be on the material. Because of the ballon effect around the the thighs, the legs are going to rub against each other, resulting in wear. Methods to minimize this without restricting mobility will be found eventually, but I was thinking that reducing the number of steps an explorer takes would be the simple solution. <br /><br />Flexible, fully articulated suits may prove to be very hazardous on planet surfaces, what with brushing up against sharp rocks, thermal conduction from the soil, and raditation concerns. We base our assumptions on an extremely limited body of experience, and need to keep our minds open to alternatives.<br /><br />I think that the hard cylinder suit I referred to earlier proved to be too bulky for use in the space program so far, which has required astronauts to either spend the whole mission in them, or to be able to negotiate airlocks that were made as small as possible. An airlock capable of handling a hard suit would have to be about 3.5 meters long, and about 2 meters in diameter, minimum. And those hard suits were capable of independent maneuvering, in most cases, which has not been desirable for the average EVA. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> The secret to peace of mind is a short attention span. </div>

 

[rocketman5000]

>Because of the ballon effect around the the thighs, the legs are going to rub against each other, resulting in wear. <br /><br />a short term solution would be to have sacrificial wear pads. Maybe such pads would be velcroed to the suit and when showing significant wear could be exchanged for another set of pads. Thin layers of polyetheylene would probably work. It is one of the "slipperest" materials next to teflon, and it is a readliy available comodity in many industries.

 

[j05h]

> a short term solution would be to have sacrificial wear pads. <br /><br />The "Mark III" spacesuit (a dev unit, thoroughly tested) solved this neatly by having an extremely well designed hard torso that included segmented "shorts" running down the thighs. The outer extremeties were advanced fabric, but the thigh and shoulder joints were mechanical. This was one of the most maneuverable suit designs ever, including somersaults and unaided kneeling/standing in the Vomit Comet. <br /><br />Workpods and other pseudo-hardsuit/spacecraft devices shouldn't be brought into an airlock, they should have hatches that link up with the main craft. No, I'm not talking a full APAS but some kind of lightweight hatch. Servicing is an issue, but there are ways around it (garage).<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

These are interesting questions and, as we have never done more than three EVAs in a row on another body, we have limited answers. Testing on Earth will supply some solutions - terrestrial sandy and dusty enviroments approximate those on Mars, fine volcanic ash will replicate the Moon, and sharp rocks are sharp rocks where ever you are. But some will only be learned by experience on the Moon and Mars.<br /><br />Just some random thoughts on your comments...<br /><br />The ballooning problem won't be an issue with MCP suits, and scuffing is less of a serious issue because they won't leak.<br /><br />Sacrifical pads and outer layers are an excellent idea, regardles of the suit concept.<br /><br />The problem with hard suits is that they leak like crazy round the bearings. this measn they have to carry much more consumables than an ordinary suit. this is not a problem with an orbital suit but is a problem on the Moon and Mars, where weight is critical. Much of the weight of a suit is the PLSS and anything that increases it should be regarded with alarm.<br /><br />Suit ports may deal with the airlock size problem for hard suits. Although you would still would want an emergency airlock in the event of the suit port failing to engage.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>