SpaceX Dragon

[no_way]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>I've also heard a rumor that the Dragon has round folding solar panels ("mickey mouse ears") in the nose area<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />Confirmed, it seems. Houston, we have Mickey ears:<br />http://www.spacex.com/gallery/cots3_large.jpg

 

[holmec]

I hope nobody actuates that upper thruster while climbing out! lol<br /><br />Nice design. Can't hep but noticing the ballistic rocket nose shape of the capsule. T/space had that and Kistler has an extended version of it in its upper stage. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

The obvious guess is that the panels are stowed in the cap and the chute is in the body of the capsule just under the cap. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[holmec]

LOL <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#0000ff"><em>"SCE to AUX" - John Aaron, curiosity pays off</em></font></p> </div>

 

[nacnud]

I've got no idea where the parachutes are hidden, I used to think that in the nosecap would be a good place but that seems to be there to cover the CMB and solar pannels.<br /><br />There are two small bays in the SM but they seem too small for parachutes, maybe flotation devices?

 

[j05h]

The parachutes might be in the nosecap, just not shown in these images. The Dragon really looks like it does base-first reentry. The orange material represents some kind of heat shield.<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[baktothemoon]

I don't see any engines on the capsule other than the RCS thrusters. Won't it need OMS thrusters like the shuttle?

 

[j05h]

The Dragon capsule is sometimes shown with a service module that includes OMS. I'm wondering when SpaceX plans to start building a flight unit?<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[docm]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>nacnud said;<br /><br />There are two small bays in the SM but they seem too small for parachutes, maybe flotation devices?<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Look at their placement; 180 degrees apart with one over the passengers headspace.<br /><br />My take: one for a floatation/landing bag(s) and one for a paraglider, which can smaller than the equivalent canopy-style parachute while providing some degree of directional control before landing. Basically something similar to the original Gemini/X-38 concepts plus the landing bag, which should allow both land/sea touchdowns with minimal stress to the reusable airframe.<br /><br />A paraglider/parachute in one of these locations would make me change my mind about nose-first re-entry. <br /><br />I'm presuming the para-whatever would require multiple front-rear mounted lines stowed under pop-off panels and placed to balance the capsule coming down, as with Gemini/X-38. I'm also presuming these panels could not be in a heat shield zone, leaving only the rear end first re-entry option.<br /><br />This leaves protection of the docking mechanism and solar panel stowage as the caps main functions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[gunsandrockets]

"There are two small bays in the SM but they seem too small for parachutes, maybe flotation devices?"<br /><br />No, I think you nailed it. Those are the chute doors.<br /><br />I had a real D'oh moment. I just reread this...<br /><br />http://www.thespacereview.com/article/682/1<br /><br />...I think I was drowsy the first time I read it because it didn't sink in. It answers all the questions.<br /><br />"...Once in orbit the Dragon’s nose flips opens and a pair of disc-shaped solar panels, nicknamed “Mickey Mouse ears”, deploy. The opened nose also reveals the docking adaptor used to mate the spacecraft with the ISS. The nose of Dragon is relatively large and can accommodate a number of different adaptors. “We’ve sized it for the really big one, which is the Common Berthing Mechanism,” Musk said, “but it can easily take smaller adaptors.”..."<br /><br />That's where I remember hearing about the mickey mouse solar panels. Not some rumor! D'oh!<br /><br />"...The crewed version of Dragon would be able to carry up to seven people; Musk did not specify how much cargo the uncrewed version of Dragon could carry. The crew/cargo compartment will be made of an advanced aluminum-lithium alloy similar to the one used on the shuttle’s external tank, but developed just in the last several years. The propulsion module, located below the crew/cargo compartment, is a donut-shaped module that contains the reaction control system, avionics, and recovery systems. The “trunk” of Dragon, an adaptor for mating the spacecraft to the top of its Falcon 9 launcher, can also be used to carry unpressurized cargo to the station..."<br /><br />Ah, so! The 'recovery systems', better known as parachutes, are located in the propulsion module. No great mystery after all. D'oh!<br /><br />The article is full of Dragon and Falcon IX goodness. So read the rest.<br /><br />

 

[nacnud]

Nice find, off to read more <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" />

 

[crix]

Hah! That's a great article!<br /><br />“I don’t believe in the mining of stuff in space. The transportation costs are so horrendously high that I don’t think there’s anything… if there were packages of purified crack cocaine in orbit right now, I’m not sure it would be financially viable to go and retrieve them,” he said, to gales of laughter from the audience." -Musk<br /><br />Wish I could have been there.

 

[publiusr]

What I don't get is the Kistler 'capsule' (going by the space.com article.)<br /><br /> Just a squat tube?

 

[josh_simonson]

"While SpaceX develops the Merlin 1C, a kerosene/liquid oxygen engine, Musk said the company was also considering developing a liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen upper stage engine. Such an engine would be “really critical for going beyond Earth orbit,” he said. Such an engine used on the largest version of the Falcon 9 would be able to place nearly 50 tonnes into low Earth orbit."<br /><br />Neat! <br /><br />It seems odd though that the Falcon 9 w/ LH2 upperstage would outperform the Atlas V heavy (which already has a LH2 upperstage) by 100% considering their booster cores are comparable in size. Presumably centaur is undersized and/or underpowered for heavy LEO payloads. Could the heavy EELVs double their LEO payload with a new upper stage?

 

[radarredux]

Probably a stupid question on may part: Could SpaceX just put a CEV ontop of a Falcon 9?

 

[gunsandrockets]

"Probably a stupid question on may part: Could SpaceX just put a CEV ontop of a Falcon 9?"<br /><br />Not a stupid question. Assuming the Falcon IX performs as advertised the answer is yes, a Falcon IX in the heavy 3 x core-booster configuration has enough payload capacity to lift a fully loaded Orion CEV to low-Earth orbit.<br /><br />The numbers quoted for the mass of the Orion is 23 metric tonnes (that's about 50,600 pounds). The payload for the heavy version of the Falcon IX is 50,000 pounds. The payload for the version of the Falcon IX with a liquid hydrogen fueled upper stage is 100,000 pounds.

 

[elguapoguano]

I wanna have faith, but the fact of the matter is, Falcon I has yet to fly successfully. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#ff0000"><u><em>Don't let your sig line incite a gay thread ;>)</em></u></font> </div>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">I wanna have faith, but the fact of the matter is, Falcon I has yet to fly successfully.</font>/i><br /><br />Neither has Ares I, Ares V, Kistler, etc. I will definitely feel more comfortable when SpaceX gets their first payload into the correct orbit.</i>

 

[radarredux]

> <i><font color="yellow">The numbers quoted for the mass of the Orion is 23 metric tonnes</font>/i><br /><br />Is that the mass for a fully loaded CEV for a Lunar mission or an ISS mission? Or is there no difference?</i>

 

[nacnud]

No difference.

 

[j05h]

The Falcon 9 S9 will have almost 25 tonnes to LEO payload. Can definitely handle the CEV. My question is how much will the full Dragon capsule weigh?<br /><br />Josh <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div align="center"><em>We need a first generation of pioneers.</em><br /></div> </div>

 

[nacnud]

IIRC 8 tonnes, I'll just go check.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

I Googled "Spacex Dragon" & could not find a thing on the specs other than how many crew it could carry. Maybe they want to keep it a secret. If nacnud is right, & it weighs in at 16,000 lb, then it could carry in the neighborhood of 9,000 lb. in cargo. That’s nearly a third of what the Shuttle can carry. <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>

 

[nacnud]

Well the F9 is supposed to orbit 9,600 kg so 8 tonnes for Dragon is in the ball park. I can't find an exact figure either.

 

[Boris_Badenov]

Do you know which version of the F9 the Dragon will fly on? I took a look at their web site & there are 4 different configurations. 19,140lb with a 16.9' fairing, 20,460lb with a 11.7' fairing, then 2 bigger versions. If thats the case, 16,000lb for the Dragon does not leave much for payload.<img src="/images/icons/frown.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#993300"><span class="body"><font size="2" color="#3366ff"><div align="center">. </div><div align="center">Never roll in the mud with a pig. You'll both get dirty & the pig likes it.</div></font></span></font> </div>