"Sprite" lightning news

[docm]

Numerous video links, so check 'em out.<br /><br />Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Video Reveals 'Sprite' Lightning Secrets<br /><br /><i>By Dave Mosher, LiveScience Staff Writer</i></b><br /><br />Sprites dance high above thunderstorms, but they’re not furtive mythical creatures. They’re quick bursts of electricity that have left atmospheric scientists in the dark about their origins.<br /><br />New ultra-high-speed video shows sprites form as fast-paced balls of electricity, not streaks or tendrils as previous footage suggested.<br /><br />The discovery challenges current theories of how mysterious sprites form and could lead to new understanding of atmospheric chemistry. The findings are detailed in this month’s issue of the journal Geophysical Research Letters.<br /><br />Young mystery<br /><br />Researchers predicted the existence of sprites as early as 1920, but direct evidence materialized only in 1989, when scientists testing a new low-light camera accidentally videotaped the bursts high above thunderstorms. Since then, atmospheric scientists have learned lightning below storm clouds is responsible for creating sprites above.<br /><br />“When the lightning strikes, an imbalance of charge forms between the storm cloud and the air above it,†said Hans Nielsen, an atmospheric physicist at the University of Alaska and co-author of the new study. Nature’s way of evening things out, he explained, is a rapid discharge of electricity—a sprite—that can extend as much as 20 miles upward.<br /><br />In the night sky, sprites can briefly outshine all other objects. “You could, theoretically, see them in daylight,†Nielsen said.<br /><br />Standard high-speed video can record sprites at 1,000 frames per second (fps), or about 16 times faster than a standard camcorder. But sprites are so transient that they last for only a few frames</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

Great story, thanks for catching it! <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Holy crap... moving at 1/10'th c. That's a very speedy little ball.. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[docm]

0.10 C? <br /><br />How about .999997 C?<br /><br />Link....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>The fastest flows of matter in the universe shoot out of dying stars at more than 99.999% the speed of light, new observations reveal.<br /><br />When a massive star runs out of fuel, it collapses to form a black hole or a neutron star. In the process, some of the matter from the star also explodes outwards at blistering speeds, producing an intense burst of gamma rays and other radiation.<br /><br />Scientists had predicted that the matter expanding in these explosions would be propelled to very nearly the speed of light, but it has previously not been possible to clock them precisely.<br /><br />Now, rapid follow-up measurements of two gamma-ray bursts have allowed a team of scientists to precisely measure the expansion speed of matter in these explosion to more than 99.999% the speed of light. The team was led by Emilio Molinari of the Osservatorio Astronomico di Brera in Merate, Italy.<br /><br />The expanding matter initially produces gamma rays, but when it starts colliding with surrounding gas, it creates afterglows in visible and infrared light. The amount of time it takes for this afterglow to reach its peak brightness can be used to calculate how fast material in the jets is moving.<br /><br />The researchers used a robotic infrared telescope called Rapid Eye Mount (REM), based in La Silla, Chile, which quickly points at gamma ray bursts detected by NASA's Swift satellite.<br />Fastest flows<br /><br />For two bursts in 2006, called GRB 060418 and GRB 060607 A, the telescope was able to start watching for the afterglow just one minute after Swift detected the burst. This allowed them to measure the delay before the afterglow peaks of 153 and 180 seconds, respectively. In both cases, the speed of the expanding matter worked out</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[a_lost_packet_]

Good lord.. that's fast.<br /><br />Well, I suppose there isn't much use in trying to get out of the way of a GRB... Either get your funeral arrangements in order beforehand or, if you're far away enough, get behind a big rock and hunker down. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1">I put on my robe and wizard hat...</font> </div>

 

[3488]

Incredible stuff.<br /><br />Thanks.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[robnissen]

The article in sdc adds one important point that New Scientist left out:<br /><br /><font color="yellow">"While single particles ... can be accelerated to still larger velocities, the present cases are the equivalent of about 200 times the mass of the Earth acquiring this incredible speed," Covino said. </font><br /><br />That's a BUNCH of matter being acclerated to almost c.

 

[publiusr]

Any info about Kapitsa waves?

 

[docm]

Nothing proven AFAIK.<br /><br />Having seen ball lightning several times myself growing up on a farm I guarantee you they are mainly electrical, though those saying there is a polymerized silicon/carbon/oxygen component make a good case. Perhaps some kind of capacitance or static storage is going on.<br /><br />In one incident a soccer ball sized BL extinguished on the base of our windmill with a distinct electrical crackle while another hit a well head sounding like a transformer burning out. <br /><br />Others have reported BL impacts that excavated a fair amount of soil, so whatever it is the stored energy can be quite impressive. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[weeman]

That's some awesome video! I've never really seen anything quite like that. Here we are, on this tiny little planet, trying to find answers to the cosmos, when we are still puzzled about so many things just on this tiny little rock <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[nimbus]

What would be some interesting physics or chemistry that'd happen between mass traveling at .99c and everything else? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[lampblack]

There would be a fairly serious build up of heat, as any object traveling at .99c would repeatedly collide with particles in the not-quite-perfect vacuum of space.<br /><br />In fact, without some variety of Star Trek style shielding, the aforementioned object would wear down to a hot, steaming nub in fairly short order. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font color="#0000ff"><strong>Just tell the truth and let the chips fall...</strong></font> </div>

 

[nimbus]

I don't know much about astrophysics or even physics, but here's what I was thinking of: Wouldn't the particles traveling near the speed of light act sort of strange, chemicaly or otherwise? (For example If electrons orbit around atoms, wouldn't electrons of atoms not moving at relativistic speed be orbiting at a much slower pace than those at .99c, from the latter's point of view? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[nimbus]

Would this be one of these hypothetical effects?<br />http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/content/?cid=4292 <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[downunder]

G' Day Docm<br /><br />Docm said;<br /> />In one incident a soccer ball sized BL extinguished on the base of our windmill with a distinct electrical crackle while another hit a well head sounding like a transformer burning out.<<br /><br />Can you tell me the colour of the BL's I know it was a long time ago, was there a difference in colour between the two BL's or both the same? <br /><br />Interesting how it struck the base of the windmill and not track to the top. <br /><br />Cheers for now Downunder<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

 

[3488]

I have heard that they can be blue or orange. Never seen it, so I do not know for sure.<br /><br />Would love to see it though. Must be very interesting.<br /><br />Andrew Brown. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080">"I suddenly noticed an anomaly to the left of Io, just off the rim of that world. It was extremely large with respect to the overall size of Io and crescent shaped. It seemed unbelievable that something that big had not been visible before".</font> <em><strong><font color="#000000">Linda Morabito </font></strong><font color="#800000">on discovering that the Jupiter moon Io was volcanically active. Friday 9th March 1979.</font></em></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://www.launchphotography.com/</font><br /><br /><font size="1" color="#000080">http://anthmartian.googlepages.com/thisislandearth</font></p><p><font size="1" color="#000080">http://web.me.com/meridianijournal</font></p> </div>

 

[docm]

<font color="yellow">Can you tell me the colour of the BL's I know it was a long time ago, was there a difference in colour between the two BL's or both the same?<br /><br />Interesting how it struck the base of the windmill and not track to the top. </font><br /><br />All 3 BL's that came our way were bluish white and stayed between .5 and 3 meters off the ground. I'd estimate about 10-12 BL's formed off that lightning strike, but the others went off in different directions; towards the woods, into open fields opposite us etc.<br /><br />The windmill was ~16 meters high, so anywhere on it <3 meters is essentially "the base". The well head was 1.5 meters high. <br /><br />Living on a farm in the northern end of tornado alley for almost half my life, including my college years & early career days, I've seen ball lightning many, many times. Beautiful and mesmerizing doesn't begin to describe it. I know it sounds silly, but in some ways it almost acts like its alive.<br /><br />I don't think HD video or photos would do it justice....it has to be seen with the M1 EyeBall, smelled with the M2 Nose (ozone, among others) and heard with the M3 Acoustic Receptors to be fully appreciated. <br /><br />IMO it shows that we know about 10% as much about the universe as we <i>think</i> we know. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[downunder]

G’ Day Andrew and Docm, thanks for the replies.<br /><br />Docm it was just your reference to the sound of a transformer burning out that moved me to post.<br /><br />Being familiar now as to what that sounds like it was a perfect description. (The same Transformer has burnt out twice up behind us in the next street.) <br /><br />Yes I love a good Lightning show myself Andrew/Docm sometime back there was a beauty, I opened the curtains so as to have a really good view unplugged everything and took it all in very violent (electrically) striking power poles including the one in front of our house, it soon rolled over, the afternoon sun came out the road began to steam I plugged the TV VCR back in sat down to watch the end of a motor race, about twenty minutes later the street lit up in a flash of orange and as you described (transformer sound) come deafening bang.<br /><br />It was just out of my view but a witness from the house involved said it was an orange ball and said it struck the ground (road) missing the power pole in front of their house. (They had to replace electronic gear though)<br /><br />From you initial post <br /><br /> />Nielsen thinks this may be freshly formed compounds, such as nitrogen oxides—which eat up ozone gas, but is uncertain what else is produced.<<br /><br /><br />If Nielson is right Nitrogen oxide is one of those compounds that clouds will soak up as well “possible†causing heavier rain (like seeding) it is also “one†of the compounds contributes to acid rain/soil.<br /><br />Your description regarding bluish/white lightning strike and BL’s was interesting I’ve messed around with high voltage sometime back I started with a Bluish/white arc and ran fine talc like silica, dust, rust powder Graphite powder, etc through it. (Anything I could get my hands on)<br />It attracted the compounds to one of the electrodes like a vacuum cleaner and changed the colour of the arc to light orange through to a dirty orange to a orange cherry red.<br></br>

 

[docm]

There may be two different manifestations going on here, which would explain the differing behaviors; "simple" ball lightning and EBL (extreme ball lightning) with "simple" being a low energy electrostatic effect and EBL not.<br /><br />Dr. Pace VanDevender; plasma physicist recently retired from Sandia, Senior Member of the IEEE, Fellow of the American Physical Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, defines EBL thusly;<br /><br />• it glows in air;<br />• it originates from nothing visible;<br />• it lasts between 10 and 1200 seconds;<br />• it floats at about 1 meter/second;<br />• it is lethal or potentially lethal;<br />• it causes significant damage;<br />• it contains energy estimated at 100,000 to 1 billion Joules, far in excess of the energy density attributable to chemicals or electrostatics;<br /><br />One interesting idea he proposed is energy stored in neutrinos, which can penetrate matter unaffected, releasing their stored energy on encountering nuclei capable of resonant interactions with them. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[downunder]

G’ Day Docm thanks for the reply<br /><br />Docm said;<br /> />There may be two different manifestations going on here, which would explain the differing behaviors; "simple" ball lightning and EBL (extreme ball lightning) with "simple" being a low energy electrostatic effect and EBL not.< <br /><br />Yes I agree and/or sort of a graduated table between the two.<br />Docm said;<br /> />Dr. Pace VanDevender; plasma physicist recently retired from Sandia, Senior Member of the IEEE, Fellow of the American Physical Society and the American Association for the Advancement of Science, defines EBL thusly; <br /><br />• it glows in air; <br />• it originates from nothing visible; <br />• it lasts between 10 and 1200 seconds; <br />• it floats at about 1 meter/second; <br />• it is lethal or potentially lethal; <br />• it causes significant damage; <br />• it contains energy estimated at 100,000 to 1 billion Joules, far in excess of the energy density attributable to chemicals or electrostatics; <br /><br />One interesting idea he proposed is energy stored in neutrinos, which can penetrate matter unaffected, releasing their stored energy on encountering nuclei capable of resonant interactions with them.<<br /><br />I gather his work is still all theory, not knocking his work it’s as good as any and better than most.<br /><br />I’ve been trying to find a retired American scientist who had the good fortune to play with extreme high voltage for a living.<br />I going on memory here but he could only create (for want of a better word) BL lightning for a split second.<br /><br />I too have been emailing a Plasma physicist because what I proposed on another post lightning tracking through say pollen/dust etc you would in my opinion end up with an orange fire ball looking possible something like a comet (with a tail) set on a trajectory and slamming down on to the ground.<br /><br />It would have intense heat and mass (be it slight) and not necessarily an orb shape.<br /><br />I sai