<p>First, I'll address your last post.</p><p>Please, refresh me on Dr. Manuels methods. </p><p>Last I knew he determined, spectroscopically IIRC, that the elemental ratios of heavy radioactive isotopes to their decay products in asteroids in the asteroid belt were unusual, and didn't sit well with assumed isotope ratios at the formation of the solar system (and the assumed formation of the asteroids).</p><p>From this he concludes that the sun did not form as standard theory suggests, but from a heavy isotope rich supernovae remnant, and the gas gathered upon the resulting neutron star (not forming novae incidents as it does in other situtaions btw) and created the sun. The rest of the gas reformed into the solar system as we see it today.</p><p>Now, there are a few problems with this scenario: First, the conclusion seems a bit to grand for the problem. The asteroids have unusual isotope ratios...so perhaps they are abnormal asteroids. I could say that a) they weren't formed when the solar system did, perhaps they're the remnants of a small planetoid that broke up. That could account for the odd concentration of heavy metals. Or b) perhaps a nearby supernovae early in the suns lifetime seeded heavy isotopes around the system...without actually forming the sun. Either of those I can swallow easily...but to jump to the sun now being powered by fusion?</p><p>Then there's the formation around the nuetron star...why no nova event? How do you get a complete, uniform envelopment without touching off a nova? Also, how do you have one of (if not the only) lowest mass neutron stars around? Neutron stars are very tightly packed around, IIRC, the 2.5 solar mass range. </p><p>---------------------</p><p>Okay, back to the older questions about that surface image.</p><p>Coronal Loops at millions of degrees kelvin, agreed. No problem there. I'll point out that there isn't much in those loops, so the actual energy requirements (i.e. the real HEAT involved) are relatively low. I strenously object to you saying that this MIGHT release xrays and gamma rays, and if thats the case, the only explanation is plasma discharges. You are assuming information that isn't present (though might be a good lead to follow and FIND), and preposing a single, unequivocable solution. This is one of the tactics used in defense of alternate theories I really dislike. You make a few assumptions, provide a possible solution, and then deny that mainstream defenders can do anything similar. Take my claims (even an assumption) that convection in the envelope of a hydrogen/helium star can explain why there is no real stratification of heavy isotopes...and you don't even grant the possibility other than to say it doesn't convect. Anyway, to continue... </p><p> Now, this might be a plasma interaction, but even if it is...it doesn't mean the sun is powered this way. Only that the sun is energetic enough to power plasma interactions. I'll also point out that due to the high temperatures any heliuma and hydrogen there are basically invisible as they're nearly completely ionized at temperatures above 20,000 kelvin. So all you'll see are the metals.</p><p>Now, as for the sun being unique or not: In all ways that we have categorized G2 V stars, like our sun, our sun is completely typical in all respects. It fits into the middle of the pack, and is one of the most common star types (F and G are very common). As they fit in all spectroscopic, compositional, rotational, and mass parameters...it'd be really hard to say it's unique. So any mechanism you posit for the sun, shouldn't be to hard to stretch to the millions of other G2 stars. </p><p><BR/>Replying to:<BR/><DIV CLASS='Discussion_PostQuote'>see if can't sell you on some variation of Birkeland's solar model? The primary benefits of a rapidly spinning core is that you might explain the 5 minute solar oscillations that way, you can explain the sun's 22 year cycle that way, and it explains the sun's powerful magnetic field, although we can probably explain that phenomenon with current flow too. </DIV>Okay, I might buy this part, no reason why the standard model can't accomidate this. Actually, I believe it does have a rapidly rotating core producing the magnetic fields... Btw, how big is the core in Birklands model? </p><p>-----------------------------------</p><p>Onto the surfaceofthesun.com image:</p><p>I actually won't agree that the photons are originating in coronal loops. It looks like they are from the photosphere. And your claim that such structures on the photosphere last only 12 minutes is...well, wrong. Sunspots last for days, plumes and loops can easily last for hours (evena day or so). They also show up quite nicely in the hydrogen alpha wavelengths, which is how I've observed them.</p><p>As for how such regions can reach, say, 10,000 degrees: Back to my convection answer. Such regions occur under two general conditions, that of where a convection cell is rising, bringing hotter material up from beneath, and where magnetic fields influence and channel the ionized plasma that is the surface of the sun. Magnetic fields have a wonderful property of selecting high energy, high velocity particles and constraining the TIGHTER than the cool, lower energy, slow atoms that just meander out of the magnetic fields.</p><p>So having a turbulant surface, capable of warping and shifting local magnetic fields can select, filter, and direct the high energy atoms into regions of messy, complicated, magnetic fields. These regions can be created by, say, the junction between an ascending hot spot, and a decending cold spot. These two regions both drag around magnetic fields, creating some pretty tangled messes. By selecting for high energy atoms (as all magnetic fields do) and channeling them to these locations, the area can be further heated.</p><p>Now, if you want an explaination of flares...you merely need the tangle to shift so that a large portion of the magnetic field quickly rises out of the surface and thereby drags and expells a lot of the material around it. Why would it do this? Well, the field is channeling a lot of high energy, charged particles. These moving, charged particles influence the magnetic field. This could cause the field to tighten drastically..or even relax drastically as the moving charge re-distributes. This massive shift in magnetic fields (which can be slowly built up to, akin to earthquakes if you want an analogy) could creat the flares and ejections you see.</p><p>Okay, so I assume and spout all this "speculation" but I haven't supported it with any evidence yet. Well, here's a big one: Strong magnetic fields influence the emission/absorptoin spectra of atoms by taking whats normally one single transition, and splitting it into two or more (see the "Zeeman effect", and "Hyperfine transitions") If we look at these hot spots, we see strong,very strong, split lines, indicating strong magnetic fields in the area.</p><p>Now, this is all very similar to the plasma physics you talk about with one exception: I don't claim it powers the sun. I also require the sun to be liquid...or at least non-solid (i.e. almost entirely a plasma!)</p><p> </p><p>you mention helium filters not showing such formations... but trust me, Hydrogen Alpha filters do. Some really cool ones too.</p><p>As for the "Dust" of the cme...well, that's the ejected material...and it goes away, off into space. And observations show it's basically electrically neutral btw.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>--------------drumroll please-----------------</p><p>heres the really big, super duper, FUNDAMENTAL question you have to answer before I even give you an inch on EU btw, just so you know where the goal posts are:</p><p><font size="2"><strong>WHERE DOES THE ENERGY FOR YOUR SOLAR MODEL COME FROM?</strong></font></p><p>------You say it's from plasma discharges, and currents onto the sun. But that energy has to come from somwhere. It's like saying the light bulbs in my house are powered by copper wires... without acknowledging or implying the existence of the powerplants.</p><p>Fusion models for the sun provide a power source...so far I see none in your proposals. </p><p> </p> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p align="center"><font color="#c0c0c0"><br /></font></p><p align="center"><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">--------</font></em></font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">----</font></em></font><font color="#666699">SaiphMOD@gmail.com </font><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">-------------------</font></em></font></p><p><font color="#999999"><em><font size="1">"This is my Timey Wimey Detector. Goes "bing" when there's stuff. It also fries eggs at 30 paces, wether you want it to or not actually. I've learned to stay away from hens: It's not pretty when they blow" -- </font></em></font><font size="1" color="#999999">The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>