Starry, starry fight threatens dark skies

[tfwthom]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/opinions/articles/0306sun1-06.html<br /><br />Starry, starry fight threatens dark skies <br /><br />Mar. 6, 2005 12:00 AM <br /><br />A starry night in the desert. Awe-inspiring. Breathtaking. And worth millions of dollars. <br /><br />Dark, clear skies are some of our rarest natural resources. They make Arizona a premier location for astronomy. Observatories and their spinoffs, including optical science, are big business for the state. <br /><br />Yet the Legislature is considering two bills that threaten our dark skies. <br /><br />House Bills 2461 and 2462 would loosen the rules on billboards, opening the way to large, extremely bright electronic signs.<br /><br />You don't need a research degree to understand that the more light a place has, the less you see of the heavens. Just consider how many stars you spot up at the Grand Canyon compared with the Valley. <br /><br />"There are only a few areas of the world that are uniquely well suited to astronomy," says Richard Green, director of the Kitt Peak National Observatory. With dry weather and mountaintops where the air flow is relatively smooth, northern and southern Arizona are two of them. <br /><br />Legislators should protect these valuable resources. Not undermine them. <br /><br />The economic potential is huge. <br /><br />International consortiums are investing $150 million to build two state-of-the-art telescopes in Arizona.<br /><br />Astronomy pulls in large research grants. Just one facility at the University of Arizona, the Steward Observatory, received $84 million in grants in 2004. <br /><br />The science is not only lucrative but exciting. And it opens opportunities for Arizona students and researchers <br /><br />The Fred Lawrence Whipple Observatory, for instance, has four giant reflectors under construction on Kitt Peak to study gamma rays. The origin of the rays is violent and <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1" color="#3366ff">www.siriuslookers.org</font> </div>

 

[yevaud]

Utterly agreed.<br /><br />Here, at my former University (Boston University), when the observatory was constructed (in the early 40's, on the top of one of the buildings), this area was way out on the city's outskirts. Light pollution wasn't a problem.<br /><br />Now, we're smack *in* the city, and it *is* a major problem. Seeing anything remotely close to the horizon is a real problem. We had to got out to one of the distant observatories to really see anything (maybe 50 miles or more).<br /><br />All so someone can sell more *&%$^*%$ anti-persperant. The human race has it's priorities ass-backwards... <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[vogon13]

Omaha, Nebraska has recently installed 'string of pearls' lighting system to local airport. Light fixtures direct 50% of light straight up instead of onto roadway were it might do some good. Just from the stand point of wasting electicity, these lights are a staggeringly bad idea. Factor in the increase in sky glow and it makes you wonder what variety of pinhead is running things around here. There is also the possibility of some graft as otherwise we are left with the 'incompetence' theory. <br /><br /> Light fixtures are also damn ugly. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#ff0000"><strong>TPTB went to Dallas and all I got was Plucked !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#339966"><strong>So many people, so few recipes !!</strong></font></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>Let's clean up this stinkhole !!</strong></font> </p> </div>

 

[paleo]

Here's some 'stuff' from our local branch of our l astronomy society.<br /><br />http://www.syz.com/rasc/lp/#retro

 

[nevers]

So, is there someone we can write too to express our concerns? After all, as much as Las Vegas has been good to me, I plan on moving to N. Arizona someday and I'll want dark skies waiting for me!

 

[paleo]

Nevers.<br /> <br /> When we're in the Las Vegas area we camp out on public land about 20 kms west of Glendale on Hwy 168. There's a well know paleontological site.<br /><br /> We've had incredible skies there. In the 90's we watched the 2 big comet 'shows' from that site. <br /><br /> As for northern Arizona, it might be luck of the draw but the few times we've camped out in the north central area the skies were a bit hazy...not sure if natural or man made causes. Some of the clearest skies we've encountered were in northeastern part of Arizona around Tuba City and near New Mexico.

 

[yevaud]

Yes. I was stationed at Fort Bliss (El Paso) Texas, and had to do many a field exercise way out in the New Mexico desert. Crystal-clear skies. Beautiful. So dark, you - literally - couldn't see your hand in front of your face. Ideal conditions. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Differential Diagnosis:  </em>"<strong><em>I am both amused and annoyed that you think I should be less stubborn than you are</em></strong>."<br /> </p> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>Factor in the increase in sky glow and it makes you wonder what variety of pinhead is running things around here.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />A politician. That pretty much sums it up. With a few notable exceptions, most politicians are a bit like Dilbert's boss in many areas. Partly this is because you can't be an expert in everything, but you still have to represent your constituency in everything. But mostly I think it's because in order to get elected, they need to be experts in getting elected. Anything else is unimportant, so they tend to be less competent in other areas. (It is interesting when those notable exceptions do come up -- Carter, for instance, was a nuclear engineer. This was mostly a useless skill for a lot of his tasks as President, but it came in handy during the Three Mile Island crisis.)<br /><br />I think a lot of times the contracts for installing exterior lighting on publicly owned properties in cities are determined by which contractor puts in the lowest overall bid for the job of procuring and installing the things. The cost of running them is often a secondary concern. But more and more politicians are getting wise to that, and some areas have actually succeeded in installing more efficient lighting systems. So there is hope. <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[nevers]

Sounds like Arrow Canyon Wilderness Area. I've never been there but have always wanted to check it out. The problem with the Vegas Metro is that it is growing at a phenomenal rate. In the early 90's the population was under 1 million. Now, (10yrs later), it's approaching 2.5 million. By the time I could think about retiring and moving to somewhere that has true dark skies, I'm afraid Vegas will have expanded out of the Valley and into the high desert making places like Arrow Canyon (and other places I go now that are only Semi-Dark) into Semi-Dark skies: Billboards or no. The Sky Dome from Vegas is HUGE! I have thought of moving someday further into N. Nevada but then, I'm only further from my friends in Arizona.<br /><br />In the meantime, maybe I'll go check out Arrow Canyon and tell you how it is now. Thanks for the sugguestion!<br /><br />And "yes", I went to New Mexico one time and stopped at a rest stop along the freeway. At the time I really wasn't into Astronomy but I did notice the Milky Way: I don't know how any body could miss it. It was like you could reach up and touch it!

 

[nevers]

How 'bout billboards that have white lettering on a black background? They would be very visible during the daylight and they could shine red light on it at night. I still like the idea of no billboards at all...they are just annoying anyway you look at it.

 

[aaron38]

I didn't see a link so I thought I'd post one for anyone who didn't know about the Dark Sky Association. They do good work.<br /><br />http://www.darksky.org

 

[tfwthom]

There is a question weather the IDA really does any good. Their home is in Tucson Arizona but they don't seem to do much about light pollution in Arizona.<br /><br />They seem to leave you on your own to fight light pollution. Nothing like the NRA helping organizing boycotts, letter writing, etc.<br /><br />I'm not going to say they are all bad, just wondering if they do any real good. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="1" color="#3366ff">www.siriuslookers.org</font> </div>