Stars or Wars

[mgrodzki]

So, considering the available band-width available to the human exploration of space… how do we get to become a space faring species like we see in popular science fiction? How might humanity ever muster up enough resources and dedication to potentially populate the Moon, populate Mars, build cities in Earth orbit, explore the moons of Jupiter and send teams of inquisitive scientists to study the lakes of Titan? The only way I could see any of that happening in such a way that it becomes a part of the everyday human experience, would be for human kind to figure out a way to do away with war.<br /><br />for the rest of my arguement see: http://wanderingspace.net/?p=198

 

[weeman]

Although I think all the things you mentioned are certainly possible in Mankind's future, I don't know if we will ever see the end of war. It's a sad thing to say, but as long as there is Man on this Earth, there will most likely be war.<br /><br />I can certainly see us traveling to the outer planets, and colonizing several different celestial bodies. It all might happen within the next one to two hundred years, who really knows. <br /><br />As for the war side of things, just take a great philosopher's word for it.<br /><br />"It is only the dead who have seen the end of war." -Plato<br /><br /><br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><strong><font color="#ff0000">Techies: We do it in the dark. </font></strong></p><p><font color="#0000ff"><strong>"Put your hand on a stove for a minute and it seems like an hour. Sit with that special girl for an hour and it seems like a minute. That's relativity.</strong><strong>" -Albert Einstein </strong></font></p> </div>

 

[why06]

"That am true weeman"<br />Mankind is a violent species, not to say other animals aren't also, but it will be a long time until wars stop. <br /><br />But who knows may be we'll get so far away from each other that we can no longer fight.... But than wars will problem start in the places we've moved to. There will be some time of peace though... maybe 100 years or something. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[mithridates]

In spite of how the news makes one feel otherwise, statistically we are doing away with war - conflicts per capita are at a record low. Other things I see that can't but help include literacy (going up), reducing poverty (happening everywhere except sub-Saharan Africa), and just about anything else that helps us work better as a cohesive unit. A big help would be solving the language problem, i.e. a universal second language. That helps avoid things like the Nobel Prize that Dutch scientist won for discovering...vitamin B12 I think...anyhow, it turned out that a Japanese scientist had not only discovered it but also knew how to extract it a number of years earlier, but nobody knew because the German translation he had done left out that one crucial part. Being able to communicate with anyone without a translator will reduce mishaps like this, and also contribute in its own way to world peace (not the ultimate solution but something else that can't help but contribute). <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[mithridates]

I've always thought the same thing too. One reason why I've always thought it much more likely for visiting aliens to be friendly is precisely the amount of civilization and development one needs to be able to advance that far.<br />One interesting episode of Voyager though that I just remembered now was about that species descended from hadrosaurs that had convinced themselves that they didn't come from Earth but rather the planet that they were living on at the time. Though on the whole they were quite nice, had great scientists and whatnot (and far greater technology than humans had), they had created a kind of dogma that couldn't be challenged. I think that's possible, a civilization that's quite nice on the whole, but a bit too full of themselves and difficult to deal with. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p>----- </p><p>http://mithridates.blogspot.com</p> </div>

 

[saurc]

I think the major reason why we are not going on with our programs to explore space is because there is no particular immediate reason to, unlike wars of nowadays which can be tied to economic or religious policies. Which is a sad thing, because war is virtually a black hole into which a huge lot of unrecoverable money and resources goes into each year.<br /><br />I do not know when public opinion will finally consider science fiction as a possible reality rather than as only fiction. When sufficient number of people get interested in space, and the private space industry gets better developed, I suppose we may actually see things happening. But it is highly unlikely that the government will ever give higher priority to space research rather than war.

 

[vandivx]

point is not to do away with wars but fight them as they should be fought - in Irak for example, the objective was threat of some weapons and USA should have gotten out of Irak shortly after they got to Baghdad and saw that the whole country doesn't have those feared weapons, that's how war should be waged, ie, not as some missionary effort bringing light to people but come in, break infrastructure and get out and save tons of $s and lives which should be dedicated to space faring efforts instead<br /><br />wider view is that the West should have stuck with capitalism as it was around 1920 or thereabouts and not experiment with socialism and state interference in economy as it did in later times till today, if there wasn't for that, we could have been on Mars for decades already and have good start towards general space travel within our solar system<br /><br />one glaring sign of bast.....zation of USA (and whole West in general) for example is that its biggest fear is that somebody will come in to work (if we leave aside criminal intents), get it, for christ sake, they are affraid you will come in from elsewhere and work there for whatever wages americans offer you, if that isn't sign of culture that lost its marbles (I mean reason and freedom), I don't know what is<br /><br />it is not really wars what is holding us back from space travel but those collectivist ideas which among other make us behave foolishly in wars and which drain our wealth and will and which castrate progress out of men's minds and set it at fear for Earth, for nature... soon our culture will be again the worshiping sawages of the deep past albeit not in some grass skirts but 21st century suits but that is not essential what we wear and how we look, we can still behave like those sawages anyway<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[saurc]

If the west had stuck with capitalism only, there would have been no soviet communism and hence no space race or Apollo missions to the moon. I hardly think we would have been on the moon by now, forget mars, if not for the rivalry between USA and USSR in the space race.

 

[emperor_of_localgroup]

One of the main reasons of this sad conditions is our leaders, specially politicians, are intellectually totally crippled, their views revolves around their own personal gain and interests. Even our social guides are of mediocre intelligence. <br /><br />I like to see some famous or top scientists enter politics in their later years. That's is the only way we can change average citizens views of the world. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <font size="2" color="#ff0000"><strong>Earth is Boring</strong></font> </div>

 

[vandivx]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>If the west had stuck with capitalism only, there would have been no soviet communism and hence no space race or Apollo missions to the moon. I hardly think we would have been on the moon by now, forget mars, if not for the rivalry between USA and USSR in the space race.<p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br />likely there would have been soviet communism even if capitalism prevailed in the west, that is in USA and EU (which means mainly UK but even that country lost its marbles by those times I talk about and its better people left for America long before that)<br /><br />but let the history be as it happened, it always amazes me how diametrically opposite can people view the causes of what makes for progress, like this idea that without rivalry based on cold war there would have been no sputnick and Apollo...<br /><br />to be sure, given how the historical cards were dealt those events wouldn't likely have happened as you say if there wasn't that cold war, the point I am trying to make is that the West would have been totally somewhere else if it didn't start playing with collectivist ideas early in 20th century which then led to stagnation/imasculation of private enterprise which was then laying prostrate in 1950s/60s and needed exhortation from state leaders and state funding to do anything<br /><br />by that same logic you could ask which goverment official or international rivalry (or war effort) pushed for the first electrical generators, first steam locomotives, first airplanes... and if they didn't, how could it all happen, how did the mankind get out of caves into the scyscrapers of NY (if that was due to fear of predators and or rivalry with russian zemlyanka (earth dugouts) dvelings), those are the facts you should be pondering then<br /><br />what I was trying to say was that continuously capitalist America would have done much more than was actually done in 20ties century never mind the rivalry which even in such case <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[depthoffocus]

The best discussion I have seen of this subject is by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournell (Please excuse mispelled name if so, Jerry - I'm away from my library!) in a classic Science Fiction story "The Mote In God's Eye". In this book, we (humans) discover a race that has never succeded in leaving their solar system. Though far older than the race of our ficticious heroes, this alien culture is blasted. <br />The point made in the story is that space exploration and expansionsim is the finest and most equitable manner to avoid war.

 

[vandivx]

"Though far older than the race of our ficticious heroes, this alien culture is <font color="yellow">blasted</font>"<br />----------------<br />it continues to amaze me this ingrained blood thirstiness in most folks like here on this forum and in general as it shows in topics such as these, almost makes me feel like I should get a gun in my pocket or at least a knife when venturing out on street among you people given how you are all apparently bent on smashing everybody and everything that doesn't somehow fit or is alien to you, I could understand that if we were wild animals defending our teritory... or are we?<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>