Static electricity problem on moon?

[docm]

Article....<br /><br /><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p><b>Static Electricity Could Short-Circuit Moon Missions</b><br /><br />PRESTON, U.K.--Many people would get a charge out of standing on the moon, but a little extra electric charge could endanger the astronauts who visit it in the second half of the next decade. During this period, the moon will pass through part of Earth's magnetosphere, causing static electricity to build up on the lunar surface, a space scientist reported here today at Royal Astronomical Society's National Astronomy Meeting. The resulting charge could short-circuit electronics and affect the behavior of lunar dust particles, which are fine enough to enter living quarters and even spacesuits.<br /><br />The moon may look serene as it hangs in the night sky, but its surface is a hostile and dangerous place. Temperatures in the darkened portions of the moon plunge to -170 degrees Celsius, whereas those in the light climb as high as 100 degrees. And the moon has no atmosphere to shield it, so its surface is continually pelted with radiation from space. But static electricity may also severely hamper future missions to the moon, says space scientist Mike Hapgood of the Rutherford Appleton Laboratory in Chilton, U.K.<br /><br />Electrical charging is one of the less well known natural hazards of spaceflight, Hapgood says. The lunar surface charges up roughly every 18 years because of changes in the orientation of the moon's orbit. For a number of years during each peak, the orbit intersects the so-called plasma sheet--a thin region in Earth's magnetosphere that contains many electrically charged particles from the sun. These particles crash into each other and charge the lunar surface, as has been witnessed by NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft in 1998, during the last maximum. A geometric analysis of the moon's orbital changes shows that elec</p></blockquote> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

That's shocking!! <img src="/images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img src="/images/icons/wink.gif" /><br /><br /> I never knew about this effect of the moon's orbit compared to the ecliptic. As usual, thanks. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[ianke]

Maybe they need one of those dangle thingies on the bumper.<img src="/images/icons/laugh.gif" /><br /><br />Seriously though, this is a very interesting article. I hadn't considered this to be an issue. thanks for the link docm <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[why06]

That's pretty cool....well...and dangerous. Shows how much we know. I bet there are a hundred more hazards out there caused by this effect alone that no one has thought of.<br /><br /><br />For instance I wonder if tthe landing rockets will negate the charge or make it worse? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <div>________________________________________ <br /></div><div><ul><li><font color="#008000"><em>your move...</em></font></li></ul></div> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

If the exhaust is sufficiently conductive, it could ground the vehicle before it touches down. If the charge differential is big enough, this could conceivably cause problems. It'd be a heck of a time for a computer to reboot on you. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[deapfreeze]

I have question about this. Will we see flashes of light similar to lightning on earth but on the moon from electricity? <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font size="2" color="#0000ff"><em>William ( deapfreeze ) Hooper</em></font></p><p><font size="1">http://deapfreeze-amateur-astronomy.tk/</font></p><p> </p> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

That is a VERY interesting question.<br />IIRC, most of the light in lightning comes from ionization of the air molecules, therefore with a near vaccuum on the moon, you might not even see such a discharge despite it's energetic effects.<br /><br />But I am not sure on this, so it's just my own logic at this point. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

bunch of popycock<br /><br />how is landing on moon different from a bird landing on a high tension powerline<br /><br />static electricity only hits you because of a potential difference - because you are a conduit to a lower potential area - and in the case of probe landing I don't see any problem<br /><br />but what would you expect from somebody who warns you dramatically that there is such and such temperature difference on the Moon etc (mama mia will say the Ohio farmer, what a dangerous place, someone better tell those astronauts about how cold it gets up there and they better take along that sweater mama knit them), someone just craves press and public attention IMO<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[CalliArcale]

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><p>static electricity only hits you because of a potential difference - because you are a conduit to a lower potential area - and in the case of probe landing I don't see any problem <p><hr /></p></p></blockquote><br /><br />Well, that's exactly the thing they're worrying about -- a sufficiently large potential difference. Realistically, I suspect it's more of an issue once you've been on the moon for a while. (Dust is an issue.) And another still-unsolved issue is the issue of static charge built up in space. Yes, you can build up a charge in space, though it's mostly an issue while in denser regions of the Earth's ionosphere. So far, nobody's been hurt directly by electrostatic discharge in low Earth orbit, but that's probably only a matter of time. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p> </p><p><font color="#666699"><em>"People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly . . . timey wimey . . . stuff."</em>  -- The Tenth Doctor, "Blink"</font></p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

<font color="orange">Well, that's exactly the thing they're worrying about -- a sufficiently large potential difference.</font><br /><br />but that 'large potential difference' has no place to go, ie., the landing Moon module is not a conduit to some lower potential, its potential relative to the Moon surface will equalize upon touch down but that produces no shock IMO<br /><br />if you jumped up and touched high tension powerline nothing would happen to you that would be noticable, most of us have met in life with some nasty electrostatically charged carpet or something and stepping onto it is not noticable even if we touched some good grounding conduit just before that<br /><br />that said I am no expert on these things, perhaps some static shock that is felt is not the issue here but simple charge flow (equalizing potential) which even if it has 'no place to go' can still affect electronics, perhaps the relatively large mass of the module as compared to the mass of human body might play some role (it would cause more equalizing charge flow than would be the case with just a human body) but I sort of doubt it, still as I said I am not really enough of an expert and would be convinced if somebody supplied some technical explanation, the article was meant for your mom an' pop type of audience<br /><br />if you are handling some static charge sensitive chip, nothing happens to it if somebody tosses it and you catch it while you stand on some nasty carpet, its only when you touch it standing on such surface when the chip is part of board that is grounded or is part of different potential which causes the flow of charge throught the chip to that different potential, again it might be that if the board is mounted to some sizable mass of a computer (that is otherwize isolated) that the charge potential equalizing flow might do the damage if you touch the chip first but nothing would happen to it if you touched that computer case first... which could be a lesson not to <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[MeteorWayne]

The thing is, if you move across the surface, say on insulated boots, or non-conductive tires, you will build up a differential charge.<br /><br />The charges available may be much greater than scuffling across a carpet. <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[everlasting]

I believe that the static electricty gets charged, as the Moon orbits into Earth's magnetic field. <br />And the electrical charges are speculated to increase in intensity; after the year 2012. <br /><br /><br /><br />Everlasting<br />Futuristic Science Fiction Novel<br />Moon Over Key Biscayne<br />

 

[MeteorWayne]

Why do you believe that? <br /> <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[everlasting]

An article on Astrobio.net<br /><br />http://www.astrobio.net/news/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2303&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0

 

[MeteorWayne]

Thanx, that's a great link.<br />MW <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><font color="#000080"><em><font color="#000000">But the Krell forgot one thing John. Monsters. Monsters from the Id.</font></em> </font></p><p><font color="#000080">I really, really, really, really miss the "first unread post" function</font><font color="#000080"> </font></p> </div>

 

[vandivx]

<font color="orange">if you move across the surface, say on insulated boots, or non-conductive tires, you will build up a differential charge.</font><br /><br />that yes, perhaps as somebody said here, they need to take along those trailing thingies <img src="/images/icons/smile.gif" /><br /><br />I believe that fine dust on the Moon is bad as it is even without statically clinging<br /><br />vanDivX <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> </div>

 

[JonClarke]

Sorry, but stories like this really get my goat. Another example of the chicken little approach to space flight.<br /><br />We have centuries of experience with managing electrostatic charging on Earth. No spacecraft or instrument station on the Moon has suffered significant interference from electrostatic effects despite years of cumulative operation.<br /><br />But somehow suddenly this is going to be a problem. Soon people will be wanting to spend a billion or two to solve it.<br /><br />Jon <div class="Discussion_UserSignature"> <p><em>Whether we become a multi-planet species with unlimited horizons, or are forever confined to Earth will be decided in the twenty-first century amid the vast plains, rugged canyons and lofty mountains of Mars</em>  Arthur Clarke</p> </div>